The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[beware the underdog]

CP1708 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

You have made excellent points. 

And you have made none, as usual. 

Because the only thing you know about the NBA is how to capitalize SPURS.  Other then that, you're worthless. 

  
Why should I? You will only hate on my sig.

Surprise you didn't quote me with the usual BS

"

 You cheer for the JETS and Cowboys

 Cheering for half the NFL.

"

"SPURS suck....LA 4-1 vs them

"

You always do that.

I started the discussion on the Small vs big market. Its ok to disagree but please be respectful.

 

[pmatic]

Carmelo Anthony interview with SI.

Melo opens up about lockout, Nuggets, more


SI.com: Did you know the league proposed something called — or at least nicknamed — the “Melo rule

 

[pmatic]

Carmelo Anthony interview with SI.

Melo opens up about lockout, Nuggets, more


SI.com: Did you know the league proposed something called — or at least nicknamed — the “Melo rule

 

[n ll k 3]

NBA stars have bigger egos than NFL stars because they technically should.

You can carry a NBA franchise by yourself.  Football, not so much.

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]CP[/color], I agree w/ damn near everything you've said in here.  But you're not going to admit that market size/location has any effect whatsoever?  Even just a tad?

Small market teams have to consistently hit in the draft or they're screwed (they have no other option).  And even when they do hit in the draft, they have to worry about keeping the player(s) there.

Big markets don't need to be as precise in the draft, because FA's will always want to come there/force their hand to come there.

You're lying to yourself if you think the Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, Celtics don't have a built in advantage compared to the Cavaliers, Timberwolves, Thunder, Grizzlies.

I'm not even saying it's unfair or needs to be fixed, it's life.

 

[n ll k 3]

NBA stars have bigger egos than NFL stars because they technically should.

You can carry a NBA franchise by yourself.  Football, not so much.

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]CP[/color], I agree w/ damn near everything you've said in here.  But you're not going to admit that market size/location has any effect whatsoever?  Even just a tad?

Small market teams have to consistently hit in the draft or they're screwed (they have no other option).  And even when they do hit in the draft, they have to worry about keeping the player(s) there.

Big markets don't need to be as precise in the draft, because FA's will always want to come there/force their hand to come there.

You're lying to yourself if you think the Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, Celtics don't have a built in advantage compared to the Cavaliers, Timberwolves, Thunder, Grizzlies.

I'm not even saying it's unfair or needs to be fixed, it's life.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I hate the Patriots.  In my own division, kick our @#$ all the time, win 3 outta 4 super bowls, hate those jerks, but guess what, I respect the hell out of what they do, and have done.  
Your Packers, LOVE what they have done.  Love it.  Love their Draft execution, love many of their players, the coaching staff is top notch, love it.  Do you honestly think I give a flying @#$% how much revenue they get from somewhere?  How much they charge for beer?  What percent they get from TV deals?  I don't care about ANY of that.  Just that it gets done.  

The reason the Packers are able to do what you LOVE seeing them do is because of shared revenue (TV deals, beer money, etc). Something that doesnt exist in the NBA. Green Bay has 100,000 people, it works because of shared revenue. I could go into a completely different rant with the difference between football players and basketball players when it comes to drafting. Again basketball players are tools that have been getting everything handed to them since they were on their 8th grade AAU team. They walk all over their AAU coaches, their Highschool coaches, just so Callipari can come boost their ego even more by saying how much he wants them, once the draft comes that certain player thinks he's such a big shot that he can demand what workouts for teams he wants to go to. If he ends up somewhere he doesnt wanna be he's outa there as soon as possible... Football players...their happy to be on any team as long as they got a spot in the NFL. You cant argue against that. Not saying the players attitudes have anything to do with the lockout, its just to add what else is wrong with the NBA. A problem is that there's not enough of a coaching influence and management.  The only exceptions I can think of where coaching worked is the Pistons and the Spurs as of recent. 
Yo I dont care what team your root for, at first I misread your comment and thought you were one of those guys taking a shot at where someone lives. Like "you live in Wisconsin though"...My B.

As for the dumbest thing you have said, WHAT YEAR HAS IT BEEN THE SAME 4 TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS BACK TO BACK????????????????????????????????  WHENNNNNNNNNNN?????????  

I didnt mean to make my point that literal. Like I said before in the NBA you can predict pretty accurately predict who's gonna be in it at the end year in and year out. The bottom half of each conference seeds 5-8 are always 4 different sorry *#+ (small market) teams that happened to suck better than everyone else in the conference. How many times was it in the East that it was Cavs, Boston, Orlando. I could guarantee those teams were gonna be in the top of the conference every year. The 5-8 seeds are just warm up games for teams like them in the playoffs. In the NFL and MLB you cant say the same. For example the Packers, the team that would have sucked the best in the NBA playoffs won the Superbowl. The Eagles aka dream team who everyone thought would be seeing the Packers in the NFC championship are struggling to get a win. You already know the deal in the MLB, anything goes come October. You just cant say the same for the NBA. Its too top heavy. If you dont care about parity though thats your opinion. I personally think its more entertaining. It should come down to management. But certain teams management are just receiving gifts like Gasol that no other teams would have a chance at.
And yes I predicted LA and Boston in 08, that was an easy one 

The playoffs were better this year i'll admit that. But still there are so many times that I shake my head at the things the league lets happen while calling it real basketball. 

We can dead this and agree to disagree you have your opinion and I have mine. I love to hate the NBA. Yea they have the most exciting ball players in the world thats why I watch it. I watch it to watch someone Kobe drop 50, Lebron to jump higher than any human is supposed to, but I dont watch it to watch REAL basketball. Thats what I watch College for. Where if you *%!% up and/or start lippin of Coach K will sit your *#+ until who knows.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I hate the Patriots.  In my own division, kick our @#$ all the time, win 3 outta 4 super bowls, hate those jerks, but guess what, I respect the hell out of what they do, and have done.  
Your Packers, LOVE what they have done.  Love it.  Love their Draft execution, love many of their players, the coaching staff is top notch, love it.  Do you honestly think I give a flying @#$% how much revenue they get from somewhere?  How much they charge for beer?  What percent they get from TV deals?  I don't care about ANY of that.  Just that it gets done.  

The reason the Packers are able to do what you LOVE seeing them do is because of shared revenue (TV deals, beer money, etc). Something that doesnt exist in the NBA. Green Bay has 100,000 people, it works because of shared revenue. I could go into a completely different rant with the difference between football players and basketball players when it comes to drafting. Again basketball players are tools that have been getting everything handed to them since they were on their 8th grade AAU team. They walk all over their AAU coaches, their Highschool coaches, just so Callipari can come boost their ego even more by saying how much he wants them, once the draft comes that certain player thinks he's such a big shot that he can demand what workouts for teams he wants to go to. If he ends up somewhere he doesnt wanna be he's outa there as soon as possible... Football players...their happy to be on any team as long as they got a spot in the NFL. You cant argue against that. Not saying the players attitudes have anything to do with the lockout, its just to add what else is wrong with the NBA. A problem is that there's not enough of a coaching influence and management.  The only exceptions I can think of where coaching worked is the Pistons and the Spurs as of recent. 
Yo I dont care what team your root for, at first I misread your comment and thought you were one of those guys taking a shot at where someone lives. Like "you live in Wisconsin though"...My B.

As for the dumbest thing you have said, WHAT YEAR HAS IT BEEN THE SAME 4 TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS BACK TO BACK????????????????????????????????  WHENNNNNNNNNNN?????????  

I didnt mean to make my point that literal. Like I said before in the NBA you can predict pretty accurately predict who's gonna be in it at the end year in and year out. The bottom half of each conference seeds 5-8 are always 4 different sorry *#+ (small market) teams that happened to suck better than everyone else in the conference. How many times was it in the East that it was Cavs, Boston, Orlando. I could guarantee those teams were gonna be in the top of the conference every year. The 5-8 seeds are just warm up games for teams like them in the playoffs. In the NFL and MLB you cant say the same. For example the Packers, the team that would have sucked the best in the NBA playoffs won the Superbowl. The Eagles aka dream team who everyone thought would be seeing the Packers in the NFC championship are struggling to get a win. You already know the deal in the MLB, anything goes come October. You just cant say the same for the NBA. Its too top heavy. If you dont care about parity though thats your opinion. I personally think its more entertaining. It should come down to management. But certain teams management are just receiving gifts like Gasol that no other teams would have a chance at.
And yes I predicted LA and Boston in 08, that was an easy one 

The playoffs were better this year i'll admit that. But still there are so many times that I shake my head at the things the league lets happen while calling it real basketball. 

We can dead this and agree to disagree you have your opinion and I have mine. I love to hate the NBA. Yea they have the most exciting ball players in the world thats why I watch it. I watch it to watch someone Kobe drop 50, Lebron to jump higher than any human is supposed to, but I dont watch it to watch REAL basketball. Thats what I watch College for. Where if you *%!% up and/or start lippin of Coach K will sit your *#+ until who knows.

 

[jpzx]

Memphis was once a laughing stock, and now they have a legit shot at doing something, and at least attempting to bring guys in later.  That's a start, and you build from there.  A place like Indiana, @#$% they could have had a chance, they just went into the stands and blew it.  But after the Reggie era, they should have tried to rebuild a little better and kept guys coming in there.
I mean, that's two in 6 years though. There aren't many small market franchises that can turn it around extra quick like the big market franchises can.

Small market teams have to consistently hit in the draft or they're screwed (they have no other option).  And even when they do hit in the draft, they have to worry about keeping the player(s) there.

Big markets don't need to be as precise in the draft, because FA's will always want to come there/force their hand to come there.

This.

Everything's not so black-and-white CP. You can concede some things while still maintaining your opinion.

 

[jpzx]

Memphis was once a laughing stock, and now they have a legit shot at doing something, and at least attempting to bring guys in later.  That's a start, and you build from there.  A place like Indiana, @#$% they could have had a chance, they just went into the stands and blew it.  But after the Reggie era, they should have tried to rebuild a little better and kept guys coming in there.
I mean, that's two in 6 years though. There aren't many small market franchises that can turn it around extra quick like the big market franchises can.

Small market teams have to consistently hit in the draft or they're screwed (they have no other option).  And even when they do hit in the draft, they have to worry about keeping the player(s) there.

Big markets don't need to be as precise in the draft, because FA's will always want to come there/force their hand to come there.

This.

Everything's not so black-and-white CP. You can concede some things while still maintaining your opinion.

 

[statis22]

I mean y'all do know in 2004 TMac forced himself here right? Pippen came here in 99. An aging Barkley forced himself here too.

We have gotten guys via free agency. I don't know why we're being lumped in with the small markets anyway.

 

[statis22]

I mean y'all do know in 2004 TMac forced himself here right? Pippen came here in 99. An aging Barkley forced himself here too.

We have gotten guys via free agency. I don't know why we're being lumped in with the small markets anyway.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Big J 33

All of that, just fantastic stuff. You say 10 good players out of 3 years of non-lotto picks... that's not exactly a great percentage there. And why can't we rule out a player until his 3rd or 4th year? Where's that in the rules? Sure, it's possible, but do you actually think Jordan Hill will develop into a rotation player on a playoff team?, do you think Thabeet will pan out? Do you know anything about Motiejunas' game? I'll give you Lee, he's solid right now, but like I said, not that young. Sure, they could have "potential" but I'm speaking directly to this team right now.

2006

Shawne Williams; Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap, and Leon Powe(7 players)

2007

Rodney Stuckey, Nick Young, Marco Bellinili, Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Affalo, Tiago Splitter, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, and Ramon Sessions. (13 players)

2008

Robin Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Mario Chalmers, and DeAndre Jordan(10 players)

So, from 2006 - '08, 30 out of 138(number of non-lotto picks) panned out. That's 21% success, 1 in 5 if you hate math. I'm not saying the late picks are loaded with gems(nor the whole draft for that matter), but there's a healthy amount of talent to find. So, the more picks you have, the better chance you have at building through the draft. If that's the case, why are these bad teams TRADING AWAY their 1st rounders or NOT ACCUMULATING picks. Once again, the good small market front offices(Portland, OKC, Rockets, Spurs) do their best to accumulate picks/young talent. Each year, these late 1st rounders of the good teams are available, whether for cash(how the Knicks got the Lakers' pick, to draft Toney Douglas in '09) or for proven vets(Grizzlies with Battier). 

At the end of the day, great front office>>all

I'm being completely serious here, but is reading a strong suit of yours?
You cut off the rest of my post, I assume you didn't read it because otherwise you make no sense.

You're not telling me anything I haven't said or agreed with. I directly say in there, I see what you're saying and in theory it works, but I'm speaking about the Rockets specifically as the model to follow and the benchmark. I know small markets aren't desirable, I've been repeating that myself the last few pages, but using the Rockets as an example of "small markets can't win" is illogical right now, because they haven't won using this  benchmark model you've described. 

Like I've said, when the Rockets trade their young "talent" for an established star and/or a higher pick and he pans out.. then I absolutely agree with you, but they haven't done that yet and I don't think their players are all that appealing at this point.

I am talking about the Houston Rockets and your claim they're the best run team in basketball the past few years, which I disagreed with. I have repeatedly said, I agree with your concept of getting young players, picks, and hoping they pan out either through developing or trading for better players... but I disagree with the specific mention of Houston. Why is that so difficult to understand? 
How many bad teams are trading away their lotto picks? That's great you gave me a list of good players who were drafted out of the lottery, but how many of those good players are then being traded and scooped up by these great franchises? I'm not disagreeing that great GMs can't take advantage of late 1st round players or picks and that they've been successful at it... I repeat because I don't think you read well... I'm not disagreeing that great GMs can't do this. But even using your example of 20% non-lotto first round picks panning out, out of the 9 or 10 guys Houston received or will get, that means 2 pan out. And I've specifically mentioned the players of Houston, Hill is a bum, Thabeet hasn't shown anything, Motiejunas is trash, Lee is 26 and probably won't improve, Flynn I don't think becomes anything special. Could it work in theory? Yes, entirely possible. Do I think Houston has a great chance of being successful with their players now? No, not really. 

And who exactly are you and CP sonning? As far as I can tell, he's the only one speaking to multiple people.. you're just arguing with me over something that A. I have already agreed with or B. you continue to ignore. Also.. since when has Houston been a small market? 

Anyway, I'm done talking about the Rockets, the fact that you continually ignore my points and argue something else probably makes continuing this quite useless.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Big J 33

All of that, just fantastic stuff. You say 10 good players out of 3 years of non-lotto picks... that's not exactly a great percentage there. And why can't we rule out a player until his 3rd or 4th year? Where's that in the rules? Sure, it's possible, but do you actually think Jordan Hill will develop into a rotation player on a playoff team?, do you think Thabeet will pan out? Do you know anything about Motiejunas' game? I'll give you Lee, he's solid right now, but like I said, not that young. Sure, they could have "potential" but I'm speaking directly to this team right now.

2006

Shawne Williams; Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap, and Leon Powe(7 players)

2007

Rodney Stuckey, Nick Young, Marco Bellinili, Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Affalo, Tiago Splitter, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, and Ramon Sessions. (13 players)

2008

Robin Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Mario Chalmers, and DeAndre Jordan(10 players)

So, from 2006 - '08, 30 out of 138(number of non-lotto picks) panned out. That's 21% success, 1 in 5 if you hate math. I'm not saying the late picks are loaded with gems(nor the whole draft for that matter), but there's a healthy amount of talent to find. So, the more picks you have, the better chance you have at building through the draft. If that's the case, why are these bad teams TRADING AWAY their 1st rounders or NOT ACCUMULATING picks. Once again, the good small market front offices(Portland, OKC, Rockets, Spurs) do their best to accumulate picks/young talent. Each year, these late 1st rounders of the good teams are available, whether for cash(how the Knicks got the Lakers' pick, to draft Toney Douglas in '09) or for proven vets(Grizzlies with Battier). 

At the end of the day, great front office>>all

I'm being completely serious here, but is reading a strong suit of yours?
You cut off the rest of my post, I assume you didn't read it because otherwise you make no sense.

You're not telling me anything I haven't said or agreed with. I directly say in there, I see what you're saying and in theory it works, but I'm speaking about the Rockets specifically as the model to follow and the benchmark. I know small markets aren't desirable, I've been repeating that myself the last few pages, but using the Rockets as an example of "small markets can't win" is illogical right now, because they haven't won using this  benchmark model you've described. 

Like I've said, when the Rockets trade their young "talent" for an established star and/or a higher pick and he pans out.. then I absolutely agree with you, but they haven't done that yet and I don't think their players are all that appealing at this point.

I am talking about the Houston Rockets and your claim they're the best run team in basketball the past few years, which I disagreed with. I have repeatedly said, I agree with your concept of getting young players, picks, and hoping they pan out either through developing or trading for better players... but I disagree with the specific mention of Houston. Why is that so difficult to understand? 
How many bad teams are trading away their lotto picks? That's great you gave me a list of good players who were drafted out of the lottery, but how many of those good players are then being traded and scooped up by these great franchises? I'm not disagreeing that great GMs can't take advantage of late 1st round players or picks and that they've been successful at it... I repeat because I don't think you read well... I'm not disagreeing that great GMs can't do this. But even using your example of 20% non-lotto first round picks panning out, out of the 9 or 10 guys Houston received or will get, that means 2 pan out. And I've specifically mentioned the players of Houston, Hill is a bum, Thabeet hasn't shown anything, Motiejunas is trash, Lee is 26 and probably won't improve, Flynn I don't think becomes anything special. Could it work in theory? Yes, entirely possible. Do I think Houston has a great chance of being successful with their players now? No, not really. 

And who exactly are you and CP sonning? As far as I can tell, he's the only one speaking to multiple people.. you're just arguing with me over something that A. I have already agreed with or B. you continue to ignore. Also.. since when has Houston been a small market? 

Anyway, I'm done talking about the Rockets, the fact that you continually ignore my points and argue something else probably makes continuing this quite useless.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

I hate the Patriots.  In my own division, kick our @#$ all the time, win 3 outta 4 super bowls, hate those jerks, but guess what, I respect the hell out of what they do, and have done.  
Your Packers, LOVE what they have done.  Love it.  Love their Draft execution, love many of their players, the coaching staff is top notch, love it.  Do you honestly think I give a flying @#$% how much revenue they get from somewhere?  How much they charge for beer?  What percent they get from TV deals?  I don't care about ANY of that.  Just that it gets done.  

The reason the Packers are able to do what you LOVE seeing them do is because of shared revenue (TV deals, beer money, etc). Something that doesnt exist in the NBA. Green Bay has 100,000 people, it works because of shared revenue. I could go into a completely different rant with the difference between football players and basketball players when it comes to drafting. Again basketball players are tools that have been getting everything handed to them since they were on their 8th grade AAU team. They walk all over their AAU coaches, their Highschool coaches, just so Callipari can come boost their ego even more by saying how much he wants them, once the draft comes that certain player thinks he's such a big shot that he can demand what workouts for teams he wants to go to. If he ends up somewhere he doesnt wanna be he's outa there as soon as possible... Football players...their happy to be on any team as long as they got a spot in the NFL. You cant argue against that. Not saying the players attitudes have anything to do with the lockout, its just to add what else is wrong with the NBA. A problem is that there's not enough of a coaching influence and management.  The only exceptions I can think of where coaching worked is the Pistons and the Spurs as of recent. 
Yo I dont care what team your root for, at first I misread your comment and thought you were one of those guys taking a shot at where someone lives. Like "you live in Wisconsin though"...My B.

As for the dumbest thing you have said, WHAT YEAR HAS IT BEEN THE SAME 4 TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS BACK TO BACK????????????????????????????????  WHENNNNNNNNNNN?????????  

I didnt mean to make my point that literal. Like I said before in the NBA you can predict pretty accurately predict who's gonna be in it at the end year in and year out. The bottom half of each conference seeds 5-8 are always 4 different sorry *#+ (small market) teams that happened to suck better than everyone else in the conference. How many times was it in the East that it was Cavs, Boston, Orlando. I could guarantee those teams were gonna be in the top of the conference every year. The 5-8 seeds are just warm up games for teams like them in the playoffs. In the NFL and MLB you cant say the same. For example the Packers, the team that would have sucked the best in the NBA playoffs won the Superbowl. The Eagles aka dream team who everyone thought would be seeing the Packers in the NFC championship are struggling to get a win. You already know the deal in the MLB, anything goes come October. You just cant say the same for the NBA. Its too top heavy. If you dont care about parity though thats your opinion. I personally think its more entertaining. It should come down to management. But certain teams management are just receiving gifts like Gasol that no other teams would have a chance at.
And yes I predicted LA and Boston in 08, that was an easy one 

The playoffs were better this year i'll admit that. But still there are so many times that I shake my head at the things the league lets happen while calling it real basketball. 

We can dead this and agree to disagree you have your opinion and I have mine. I love to hate the NBA. Yea they have the most exciting ball players in the world thats why I watch it. I watch it to watch someone Kobe drop 50, Lebron to jump higher than any human is supposed to, but I dont watch it to watch REAL basketball. Thats what I watch College for. Where if you *%!% up and/or start lippin of Coach K will sit your *#+ until who knows.


Oh, you mean like when Eli Manning wouldn't go the Chargers.  Or John Elway to the Colts.  You think NFL players just go where told too and never try to work around things?  Ok then.   

Oh?  You called Lakers/Celtics in 08 before the Pau trade?  You did huh.  Orrrrr, you wait til the playoffs start, THEN predict the final 4? 

  Come on now, be honest. 

So then, when the year started this year, you had Dallas, Chicago, and OKC in the final four? 

  Oh, you didn't get those either then.  I see.  But we see the same 4 every year you said.  The NBA be broke you said. 

  Come on man, you went the wrong way with all this same teams, big markets, etc etc crap.  That ain't how it is.  Bulls are considered a "big" market, but what big market things have they done to turn around?  Lucked into a great #1, got Noah, Deng from the moron Suns GM, and signed an older playoff bum version of Carlos Boozer.  Just like that, boom, contending.  This is because they are a big market and get any star they want, orrrrrrr, they finally got some moves to work out for them?  Developed some young talent, like Rose, Asik, Noah, etc.  Thas all it takes. 

Thas fine if you want to agree to disagree, no problem here.  But I don't just take excuses well when they get tossed out.  I refute them, it's a problem, I'm not working on it. 

But you're not going to admit that market size/location has any effect whatsoever?  Even just a tad?

I did a few pages back, I said to somebody I hear ya and can get with that.  I get that people wanna live on the beach, etc etc.  But nobody wanna play in Miami if Pat Riley ain't runnin the show for them, know what I mean?  It's why I brought up the Clippers so many times, Shaq wanna come to LA, but he didn't go to the Clips, why not?  Jerry West wasn't there makin things happen.  It ain't JUST market is what I was getting at. 

You can concede some things while still maintaining your opinion.
I have.  I've given more than enough examples the last 5 pages.  I'm not coming in and just saying something and bouncing, I've given all I have in here. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

I hate the Patriots.  In my own division, kick our @#$ all the time, win 3 outta 4 super bowls, hate those jerks, but guess what, I respect the hell out of what they do, and have done.  
Your Packers, LOVE what they have done.  Love it.  Love their Draft execution, love many of their players, the coaching staff is top notch, love it.  Do you honestly think I give a flying @#$% how much revenue they get from somewhere?  How much they charge for beer?  What percent they get from TV deals?  I don't care about ANY of that.  Just that it gets done.  

The reason the Packers are able to do what you LOVE seeing them do is because of shared revenue (TV deals, beer money, etc). Something that doesnt exist in the NBA. Green Bay has 100,000 people, it works because of shared revenue. I could go into a completely different rant with the difference between football players and basketball players when it comes to drafting. Again basketball players are tools that have been getting everything handed to them since they were on their 8th grade AAU team. They walk all over their AAU coaches, their Highschool coaches, just so Callipari can come boost their ego even more by saying how much he wants them, once the draft comes that certain player thinks he's such a big shot that he can demand what workouts for teams he wants to go to. If he ends up somewhere he doesnt wanna be he's outa there as soon as possible... Football players...their happy to be on any team as long as they got a spot in the NFL. You cant argue against that. Not saying the players attitudes have anything to do with the lockout, its just to add what else is wrong with the NBA. A problem is that there's not enough of a coaching influence and management.  The only exceptions I can think of where coaching worked is the Pistons and the Spurs as of recent. 
Yo I dont care what team your root for, at first I misread your comment and thought you were one of those guys taking a shot at where someone lives. Like "you live in Wisconsin though"...My B.

As for the dumbest thing you have said, WHAT YEAR HAS IT BEEN THE SAME 4 TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS BACK TO BACK????????????????????????????????  WHENNNNNNNNNNN?????????  

I didnt mean to make my point that literal. Like I said before in the NBA you can predict pretty accurately predict who's gonna be in it at the end year in and year out. The bottom half of each conference seeds 5-8 are always 4 different sorry *#+ (small market) teams that happened to suck better than everyone else in the conference. How many times was it in the East that it was Cavs, Boston, Orlando. I could guarantee those teams were gonna be in the top of the conference every year. The 5-8 seeds are just warm up games for teams like them in the playoffs. In the NFL and MLB you cant say the same. For example the Packers, the team that would have sucked the best in the NBA playoffs won the Superbowl. The Eagles aka dream team who everyone thought would be seeing the Packers in the NFC championship are struggling to get a win. You already know the deal in the MLB, anything goes come October. You just cant say the same for the NBA. Its too top heavy. If you dont care about parity though thats your opinion. I personally think its more entertaining. It should come down to management. But certain teams management are just receiving gifts like Gasol that no other teams would have a chance at.
And yes I predicted LA and Boston in 08, that was an easy one 

The playoffs were better this year i'll admit that. But still there are so many times that I shake my head at the things the league lets happen while calling it real basketball. 

We can dead this and agree to disagree you have your opinion and I have mine. I love to hate the NBA. Yea they have the most exciting ball players in the world thats why I watch it. I watch it to watch someone Kobe drop 50, Lebron to jump higher than any human is supposed to, but I dont watch it to watch REAL basketball. Thats what I watch College for. Where if you *%!% up and/or start lippin of Coach K will sit your *#+ until who knows.


Oh, you mean like when Eli Manning wouldn't go the Chargers.  Or John Elway to the Colts.  You think NFL players just go where told too and never try to work around things?  Ok then.   

Oh?  You called Lakers/Celtics in 08 before the Pau trade?  You did huh.  Orrrrr, you wait til the playoffs start, THEN predict the final 4? 

  Come on now, be honest. 

So then, when the year started this year, you had Dallas, Chicago, and OKC in the final four? 

  Oh, you didn't get those either then.  I see.  But we see the same 4 every year you said.  The NBA be broke you said. 

  Come on man, you went the wrong way with all this same teams, big markets, etc etc crap.  That ain't how it is.  Bulls are considered a "big" market, but what big market things have they done to turn around?  Lucked into a great #1, got Noah, Deng from the moron Suns GM, and signed an older playoff bum version of Carlos Boozer.  Just like that, boom, contending.  This is because they are a big market and get any star they want, orrrrrrr, they finally got some moves to work out for them?  Developed some young talent, like Rose, Asik, Noah, etc.  Thas all it takes. 

Thas fine if you want to agree to disagree, no problem here.  But I don't just take excuses well when they get tossed out.  I refute them, it's a problem, I'm not working on it. 

But you're not going to admit that market size/location has any effect whatsoever?  Even just a tad?

I did a few pages back, I said to somebody I hear ya and can get with that.  I get that people wanna live on the beach, etc etc.  But nobody wanna play in Miami if Pat Riley ain't runnin the show for them, know what I mean?  It's why I brought up the Clippers so many times, Shaq wanna come to LA, but he didn't go to the Clips, why not?  Jerry West wasn't there makin things happen.  It ain't JUST market is what I was getting at. 

You can concede some things while still maintaining your opinion.
I have.  I've given more than enough examples the last 5 pages.  I'm not coming in and just saying something and bouncing, I've given all I have in here. 

  

 

[dacomeup]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by Nike Jordan

Toronto is far from a small market.



Just sayin'.

It's like the clippers. A team in a big market that doesn't really matter and is treated like a small market

That's because of the Clippers ownership, though.

 

[dacomeup]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by Nike Jordan

Toronto is far from a small market.



Just sayin'.

It's like the clippers. A team in a big market that doesn't really matter and is treated like a small market

That's because of the Clippers ownership, though.

 

[aepps20]

As a fan of the Nuggets for 20 years I can say that even if we had the proposed cba we would still have limited success in the post Alex English pre Melo eras. Nuggets management wasted all those high draft picks on players like Raef, Tony Battie, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, and other bums that had no business being on the team. As CP and others have said, if you have crappy management all the money and rules in the world won't make the team better. I am 100% sure that if Detroit hadn't screwed up and picked Darko the Nuggets would have.

 

[aepps20]

As a fan of the Nuggets for 20 years I can say that even if we had the proposed cba we would still have limited success in the post Alex English pre Melo eras. Nuggets management wasted all those high draft picks on players like Raef, Tony Battie, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, and other bums that had no business being on the team. As CP and others have said, if you have crappy management all the money and rules in the world won't make the team better. I am 100% sure that if Detroit hadn't screwed up and picked Darko the Nuggets would have.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by aepps20

As a fan of the Nuggets for 20 years I can say that even if we had the proposed cba we would still have limited success in the post Alex English pre Melo eras. Nuggets management wasted all those high draft picks on players like Raef, Tony Battie, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, and other bums that had no business being on the team. As CP and others have said, if you have crappy management all the money and rules in the world won't make the team better. I am 100% sure that if Detroit hadn't screwed up and picked Darko the Nuggets would have.

Yep, Kiki Vandeweghe has gone on record saying he would have selected Darko before Melo had the Nuggets picked at #2.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by aepps20

As a fan of the Nuggets for 20 years I can say that even if we had the proposed cba we would still have limited success in the post Alex English pre Melo eras. Nuggets management wasted all those high draft picks on players like Raef, Tony Battie, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, and other bums that had no business being on the team. As CP and others have said, if you have crappy management all the money and rules in the world won't make the team better. I am 100% sure that if Detroit hadn't screwed up and picked Darko the Nuggets would have.

Yep, Kiki Vandeweghe has gone on record saying he would have selected Darko before Melo had the Nuggets picked at #2.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Jay02

no parity? what playoffs were you watching?

lulz at the NBA ruining basketball. NTer please

If you think the NBA is actual basketball smh. So many rules are skewed its ridiculous, if you dont notice how poorly the game is played then its obvious you havent actually played organized basketball. And yes no parity. I understand the Mavs beat a choke artist in Lebron this past year. I understand Kevin Durant is a becoming a beast, but yes no parity. We can predict the final four pretty accurately every year. For other sports not so much.

 it seems like you're arguing that nobody wants to play in Milwaukee because of things like weather, endorsements, lifestyle etc. all those things are attributes of the city that will never change (but Jennings does have a shoe deal tho) so giving all teams the same money to spend isn't gonna make Milwaukee any more attractive for two reasons, it's not the sexy place to be AND they don't know how to run a basketball franchise. the playing field will never be level especially if the front office sucks. Millions to lose on the Clippers or millions to lose on the Bucks? seriously, knowing both teams don't know how to win which one are you picking?  so to answer your question yes, certain teams will always have advantages over others and the way to overcome it is to make better decisions. Ray Allen was traded for a 34 year old Gary Payton and Desmond Mason. Seattle sucks so much as a city they have the most suicides and even they got Ray to re-up. Boston isn't a glamorous city and their management sucks but all it took was a few good decisions and they got guys to re-up. Just look at LA....both teams have the exact same opportunities and we can see where management has taken each. I don't know about you but I'm not trying to work for the guy who's checking out my balls in the shower after the game (Sterling smh). I mean it's gotta be depressing to play for a team where the weather sucks AND you're not having fun on the court because it's basically a million dollar dead end job where you know your bosses are idiots and you're never gonna win. there are cities just as boring as Milwaukee but players get drafted there and when they have the choice to leave they actually choose to stay. why? for whatever reason they stay the Bucks don't offer that and that's on them. bottom line I know you love the game but I think you love the Bucks more and it's messing with your head. if the Packers win it again this year and are competitive for the rest of the decade I don't think you would complain about how unfair it is for the other teams. you don't really want the NBA "fixed", what you want is for the Bucks to fix themselves and create a competitive environment so they can attract competitive players in spite of their location (like Green Bay does) 

First off im not arguing just for Milwaukee, im arguing for the other 18 or so small marketed teams that dont have a chance. The teams that make up more than half the league. Its not that I want just the Bucks to be fixed, I want the NBA to be fixed. And yes I am arguing that nobody wants to play in places like Milwaukee because they are egotistical tools that care more about money and being the face of everything but the basketball. Lebrons so focused on being a global icon that he forgot he has to win first. Jordan won first then became the icon. Im not saying management has nothing to do with it, management has alot to do with it. But again, its hard to manage when your more limited than everyone else.
Ray Allen for Desmond Mason 

 Once Stern screwed us out of a finals birth it all went down hill..


The reason most players dont play in those small market areas is because they suck as far as places to live, i mean come on no one says it be nice to visit milwaukee, clevland, etc.. Btw those so call small market teams offer more then the big market teams money wise. Lebron nba and market wise made less this year as a heat then any year he has ever had.

What usually the problem small market teams are own and ran by ppl who just look at owning a bball team as just another mount on the trophy case. Thus arent ran properly aka draft/trade bad, dont bring in good personnal.

Fixing the cba isnt going to change this. Teams like the cavs etc that are poorly ran wil still be poorly ran. Theyll just have more money to do it with.
  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Jay02

no parity? what playoffs were you watching?

lulz at the NBA ruining basketball. NTer please

If you think the NBA is actual basketball smh. So many rules are skewed its ridiculous, if you dont notice how poorly the game is played then its obvious you havent actually played organized basketball. And yes no parity. I understand the Mavs beat a choke artist in Lebron this past year. I understand Kevin Durant is a becoming a beast, but yes no parity. We can predict the final four pretty accurately every year. For other sports not so much.

 it seems like you're arguing that nobody wants to play in Milwaukee because of things like weather, endorsements, lifestyle etc. all those things are attributes of the city that will never change (but Jennings does have a shoe deal tho) so giving all teams the same money to spend isn't gonna make Milwaukee any more attractive for two reasons, it's not the sexy place to be AND they don't know how to run a basketball franchise. the playing field will never be level especially if the front office sucks. Millions to lose on the Clippers or millions to lose on the Bucks? seriously, knowing both teams don't know how to win which one are you picking?  so to answer your question yes, certain teams will always have advantages over others and the way to overcome it is to make better decisions. Ray Allen was traded for a 34 year old Gary Payton and Desmond Mason. Seattle sucks so much as a city they have the most suicides and even they got Ray to re-up. Boston isn't a glamorous city and their management sucks but all it took was a few good decisions and they got guys to re-up. Just look at LA....both teams have the exact same opportunities and we can see where management has taken each. I don't know about you but I'm not trying to work for the guy who's checking out my balls in the shower after the game (Sterling smh). I mean it's gotta be depressing to play for a team where the weather sucks AND you're not having fun on the court because it's basically a million dollar dead end job where you know your bosses are idiots and you're never gonna win. there are cities just as boring as Milwaukee but players get drafted there and when they have the choice to leave they actually choose to stay. why? for whatever reason they stay the Bucks don't offer that and that's on them. bottom line I know you love the game but I think you love the Bucks more and it's messing with your head. if the Packers win it again this year and are competitive for the rest of the decade I don't think you would complain about how unfair it is for the other teams. you don't really want the NBA "fixed", what you want is for the Bucks to fix themselves and create a competitive environment so they can attract competitive players in spite of their location (like Green Bay does) 

First off im not arguing just for Milwaukee, im arguing for the other 18 or so small marketed teams that dont have a chance. The teams that make up more than half the league. Its not that I want just the Bucks to be fixed, I want the NBA to be fixed. And yes I am arguing that nobody wants to play in places like Milwaukee because they are egotistical tools that care more about money and being the face of everything but the basketball. Lebrons so focused on being a global icon that he forgot he has to win first. Jordan won first then became the icon. Im not saying management has nothing to do with it, management has alot to do with it. But again, its hard to manage when your more limited than everyone else.
Ray Allen for Desmond Mason 

 Once Stern screwed us out of a finals birth it all went down hill..


The reason most players dont play in those small market areas is because they suck as far as places to live, i mean come on no one says it be nice to visit milwaukee, clevland, etc.. Btw those so call small market teams offer more then the big market teams money wise. Lebron nba and market wise made less this year as a heat then any year he has ever had.

What usually the problem small market teams are own and ran by ppl who just look at owning a bball team as just another mount on the trophy case. Thus arent ran properly aka draft/trade bad, dont bring in good personnal.

Fixing the cba isnt going to change this. Teams like the cavs etc that are poorly ran wil still be poorly ran. Theyll just have more money to do it with.
  

 

[jpzx]

But nobody wanna play in Miami if Pat Riley ain't runnin the show for them, know what I mean?
If that's true, why did people want to play for the Knicks? We heard "Melo wanting to go to NY" rumors before Amare even went there.

 

[jpzx]

But nobody wanna play in Miami if Pat Riley ain't runnin the show for them, know what I mean?
If that's true, why did people want to play for the Knicks? We heard "Melo wanting to go to NY" rumors before Amare even went there.