What Does ANYONE Have To Do To Be Considered Greater Than Mike Jordan?

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


PS: Leave Kobe's name out of this

No.. screw you

I think Kobe has his shot. 2 or three more rings and I personally would say it. Actually, it's not even about the rings. He's won multiple. That's good enough. I just need to see my man have that one NBA Finals moment where he's like eff this, I AM that dude. Gimme the ball. Win. WIN. WIN!

 

[knightngale]

 

[iceman7920]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

My man wassup

See I have already heard folks say that LeBron has TOO MUCH talent around him. Almost diminishing the idea that he is truly winning this all by himself. (As if Jordan didn't play alongside a Top 50 HOF'er). Would anyone agree with that?

On PAPER, time for time, the names of the other Cavs are more recognizable than the names of the other Bulls.
Shaq
Jamison
Mo Williams
Big Z

Are much better (on paper and recognizable) than the rest of the Bulls.So that might be why someone made that statement.

Interested in hearing other opinions.

more recognizable? maybe to younger fans or people who just started watching basketball. my mom can name more Bulls players than Cavs.
Scottie Pippen
Steve Kerr
Toni Kukoc
Horace Grant

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by FrenchBlue23

Nothing, literally nothing.

I don't think I'll live long enough for someone to say Player A was much better than MJ. I just don't see that happening.
He was an icon.

This

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

Originally Posted by FrenchBlue23

Nothing, literally nothing.

I don't think I'll live long enough for someone to say Player A was much better than MJ. I just don't see that happening.
He was an icon.

This

On top of everything, there weren't really options back then. No one else won, when MJ started winning and no one else had a worldwide persona like he did. Today there's Kobe, LBJ, D-Wade, Dwight's working on it, KG, all these damn point guards. Michael was almost 100% to a massive amount of people. At best today, you could be maybe 60% to a decent amount of people.
There ain't room for another MJ.

 

[green rhino123]

more rings in shorter period
more total points
higher game avg.
more dunk contest championships
maybe some 3pt. contest wins
more mvps (reg., playoff, all-star, etc.)
more olympic gold medals
more successful stint at one or more other pro sports
better line of sneakers

i would then certainly entertain the idea of that player being "greater"

 

[bittersweet]

Originally Posted by green rhino123

more rings in shorter period
more total points
higher game avg.
more dunk contest championships
maybe some 3pt. contest wins
more mvps (reg., playoff, all-star, etc.)
more olympic gold medals
more successful stint at one or more other pro sports
better line of sneakers

i would then certainly entertain the idea of that player being "greater"

And with the one statement I underlined, that is virtually impossible.

 

[southzeztpdot]

The Bulls went 50+ I believe with out MJ The cavs wouldnt go 20+ with out Lebron.

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by southzeztpdot

The Bulls went 50+ I believe with out MJ The cavs wouldnt go 20+ with out Lebron.

The Cavs don't stop being in the East just cuz Kang leaves.

 

[rafabio]

Originally Posted by green rhino123

more rings in shorter period
more total points
higher game avg.
more dunk contest championships
maybe some 3pt. contest wins
more mvps (reg., playoff, all-star, etc.)
more olympic gold medals
more successful stint at one or more other pro sports
better line of sneakers

i would then certainly entertain the idea of that player being "greater"

Not just more rings, but more 3-peats or maybe a 4-peat then a re-peat?....

I wonder if we'll see multiple 3-peats from one person again. Even if someone equals or surpasses his ring total (Horry

), I'd have to consider the 3-peat factor and whether that person was the leader in those successful title defenses...

Also, having a perfect record in the Finals (with a minimum of 5 appearances) wouldn't hurt either...

 

[hellomarco]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by green rhino123

more rings in shorter period
more total points
higher game avg.
more dunk contest championships
maybe some 3pt. contest wins
more mvps (reg., playoff, all-star, etc.)
more olympic gold medals
more successful stint at one or more other pro sports
better line of sneakers

i would then certainly entertain the idea of that player being "greater"

And with the one statement I underlined, that is virtually impossible.

IMO even the lbj7 ps looks like the XIs

 

[crobers 78]

[h2]

4 Rings, But Neither Compares to Either of Jordan's Rings.[/h2]

Slide 3 of 6

"The Next Jordan."

It's the moniker given to the then up and coming youngster who has captivated the sports media and appears to have the skills, athleticism and charisma to be great at the next level.

We've all heard it before, some of you have bought into it, some of you haven't paid it any attention and some of you have shunned the idea of there being another Michael Jordan. There are even those who don't recognize Michael Jordan as the greatest player to ever play the game.

The notion that there will or has been another Jordan is just ludicrous, but the media continues to use this to hype players before they've done anything worth the hype. Grant Hill faced this when he entered the NBA, Kobe had deal with it and throughout LeBron James' career he has constantly been compared to Jordan.

Since Grant Hill in the 94-95 season, Kobe in the 96-97 season and Lebron since his rookie season of 03-04, the media is batting .000% on their lofty predictions. I think it's time that they give up on bestowing the up and comers.

This is not an article bashing any of those being compared to Jordan nor will I allow my biases to dilute this article either.

While I'm not the biggest Kobe or LeBron fan, I appreciate what these two players mean to the game of basketball. There is no doubt in my mind that Kobe (when healthy) is the best player in the NBA and LeBron is a step away on the staircase.

But better than Michael Jordan? I think, not!

[h2]Comparisons: Deminishing Jordan's Legacy[/h2]

One would think that comparing a player to Jordan, someone who is considered (feel free to replace "is considered" with just "is") the greatest player ever, would only give praise to the lesser player. While in the larger scope of things constantly being compared to players who have not met or even come close to Jordan's level actually lessens Jordan's Legacy in the eyes of the public.

Think about it. If it shoots like a Jordan, dunks like a Jordan, and maybe even wags its tongue like a Jordan then it must be a Jordan, right? NO! Just because they can score a lot of points and wow the masses with dunks doesn't make them like Mike.

Vince Carter
Grant Hill
Kobe bryant
Lebron James
Penny Hardaway
Tracy McGrady
and any 5 year old who can dribble two balls at once

These players have one common thing, the Jordan comparison.

It not only diminishes anything they might accomplish that doesn't equal Jordan's accolades or milestones. It brings Jordan's legacy down a notch every time it's mentioned.

If there was a player that headlined his team, won two NBA titles, averaged around 27 points 10 assists and 6 rebounds in his 10 year NBA career he'd be revered in the eyes and hearts of the public and media. But because LeBron (through no fault of his own) has been hyped to the max this would be a disappointment for him as far as the media goes (though Cleveland fans would love this).

Jordan is a perfect 6 for 6 when playing in Finals series.

LeBron is 0 for 1 in the Finals for now.

Shaq & Kobe are 3 for 4 in Finals series. w/o Shaq kobe is 1 for 2.
Yes I mentioned Shaq. (I'll touch on this in the next slide)

During Jordan's tenure in the league he created his own hype. He wrote his own legacy. His past play gave the media reason to expect greatness from him, and he surpassed it. Ever since, the media has been on an all points bulletin man hunt for "The Next Jordan" and they are still searching.

[h2]4 Rings, But Neither Compares to Either of Jordan's Rings.[/h2]

"Kobe Bryant does indeed have 4 NBA championships to his name. But the question that no one seems to recognize or have thought to ask is do the rings measure up?

A players role on a championship team matters more than just having one.

For instance Bill Russell has ten, count them, ten NBA championships. But to his detriment, as far as arguments sake is concerned, he was on hall of fame laden teams during those championship runs. Which somewhat diminishes his "percentage" of stake in those championships.

Robert Horry has 7 NBA championships, but do you hear of him being mentioned or compared to Michael Jordan? No.

One has to question the level of competition that a championship team faces.

In the 2000 NBA Finals the Lakers faced Reggie Miller and the pacers. The Lakers stacked with talent and depth went on to sweep the Pacers. Shaq won the Finals MVP.

In the 2001 NBA Finals the Lakers beat the Allen Iversons' four straight games after sweeping the 1st two rounds then losing game 1 in the Finals to the Sixers. Again Shaq won the Finals MVP.

In the 2002 NBA Finals the Lakers swept Jason Kidd and the Nets. This culminated their three-peat to begin the decade. Shaq nabbed his third straight Finals MVP.

There is a pattern here people and it's called Shaq. Those Lakers teams were O'Neil's teams. Every positive thing besides fast break points were a direct result of Shaq. Despite what we've seen from him recently, Shaq is the greatest big man to ever play. While he may not have had as much skill as that of a Hakeem Olajuwon or Wilt Chamberlain he would dominate any center ever because of his ability to use his size to his advantage.

While Kobe was an intricate piece of the machine, he was not the main cog or soul of those teams.

The Missing Rings.

It shocks me how the media and everybody else seems to forget that Gary Payton, Kobe Bryant, Karl Malone, and Shaq lost to the gritty Detroit Pistons in five games. Shock and awe! You forgot didn't you, well there's your reminder.

Once rebuilt and then considered to be Kobe's team the Lakers entered the Finals against their long time rivals the Celtics. While the series was competitive the Lakers were ultimately humiliated in that come back win by the Celtics or debacle (which ever you prefer) in the final game of the series.

This brings me to the only championship of Kobe's which I consider even remotely close to any of Jordan's. And these weren't the Kobe's, they were the Lakers featuring Kobe, Pau, Odom, and Bynum. The only aspect about this series that I can question is whether or not the Lakers would have won had Jameer Nelson not been hampered by an injury. Other than that, Kobe put on a performance fit for a king and truly earned his ring.

Kobe's career should only be weighed on how many rings he's won without the real superman."

[h2]Jordan & LeBron: Two Completely Different Types of Players.[/h2]

At least the Kobe to Jordan comparison is reasonable. lets start with their bodies.

Jordan was 6'6, went from about 200 lbs in the beginning of his career to roughly 215 lbs towards the end of it.

LeBron on the other hand came into the league a man-child. Listed at 6'8 250, (though he says he is 6'9 260+) there has never been such a combination of size, speed, and raw athleticism combined in one player.

LeBron is clearly the most athletically gifted player in NBA history.

They play different positions; Jordan was a shooting guard while LeBron is a small forward.

They have different mentalities as to the way they approach the game. LeBron has more of a pass first, score when needed type of mentality, and this works to his detriment in critical moments.

Jordan was a natural scorer, he averaged 28 points per game in his rookie season. Jordan had to learn to trust and use his teammates to his advantage before he won anything.

LeBron is the only player ever with his skill-set.

I understand the media's anxiousness to try and raise LeBron to Jordan status but they should at least stop comparing two completely different players, and they should hold off on expecting LeBron to surpass Jordan; he hasn't even surpassed Kobe yet.

[h2]There Will Never be another Michael Jordan. Get over it![/h2]

That is a man who's drive to be excellent cannot and will never be matched. It's what separates him from the rest of the pack. His drive to maximize his potential was his number one goal not his "global icon" status or building a billion dollar empire. That drive was an intricate part of what makes him the greatest ever.

Jordan captivated the world like no other athlete had even thought of.

Jordan not only won, he dominated his opponents. He prevented other great players from winning championships and staking their claim to a ring. He beat the Lakers with Magic Johnson, he beat the trailblazers with Clyde Drexler, he beat the Suns with Charles Barkley he then retired.

He came out of retirement only to three-peat again. He took the torch from his peers it wasn't given or passed to him.

For those who say that he wouldn't have won with out Scottie Pippen or Phil Jackson; I say to you that Kobe has never won without Phil if that is your yard stick by which you measure. When Jordan retired ( the 1st time) Pippen had the same team minus Jordan and lost to Patrick Ewing and the Knicks which Jordan regularly dismantled by the way.

Michael Jordan also played in an era where hand-checking on defense was allowed and still averaged 30ppg even 37ppg in 1987. During his career defense was emphasized over offense and rough play was allowed and encouraged. In fact, back then it wasn't even considered rough play, it was the norm, players today whine and cry over the slightest touch or infraction.

Athletes in today's NBA experience a much more offensive encouraged league where hand checking isn't allowed, there is also the defensive 3 seconds in the key violation and other certain defensive rules that help along offensive play.

Michael Jordan would average 50ppg in today's NBA, easily.

This video embodies Jordan, watch and enjoy.



^ THIS!

 

[crobers 78]

green rhino123 wrote:

---

more rings in shorter period
more total points
higher game avg.
more dunk contest championships
maybe some 3pt. contest wins
more mvps (reg., playoff, all-star, etc.)
more olympic gold medals
more successful stint at one or more other pro sports
better line of sneakers

i would then certainly entertain the idea of that player being "greater"
The first one is so underrated and hardly brought up but should be a lot more since it relates to efficiency.Without a doubt the 6 FINALS, 6 FINALS MVP'S AND NO LOSSES kills #8's chances unless somehow he can miraculously go back and rewrite history

  

 

[hellomarco]

OH and play another sport professionally too

 

[essential1]

hey all I ever say about Lebron is you cannot say he doesn't have a team around him.. 2 years running 60+ wins, number 1 seed, and home court advantage.. No single player can do that... He doesn't have a great team but he doesn't have a weak team either.


Now as for the comparison basketball and baseball thrive on it.. Football not so much... But they need the new player to be compared to past greats because they are so individual stat driven. I dislike it but it gets everyone talking constantly...

 

[651akathepaul]

The more I think about it, as much as I love seeing greatness, I don't think I ever really want someone to surpass Jordan.

 

[bleezys and heem]

Money will be on top for quite a while longer IMO. It's going to be very hard for someone to surpass what he did. MJ made the NBA a global product and is one of the most recognizable names in the world.

 

[north dade represent]

I don't think any perimeter player will surpass MJ.

I think there is a potential for a big man to be more dominant than MJ. He would need the below attributes.


7ft or taller
275lb or bigger (mostly muscle)
Dirk's shooting ability
Dwight's athleticism
Hakeem's post up game
Great passer
80% free throw shooter


There'd be no answer for this guy. He'd put up Wilt #'s and if he had any passion for winning he'd get at least 6-7 rings.

Seems unlikely but eventually we're going to see a crazy dominant big man. That's more likely than some wing player surpassing than what MJ did.

 

[hellomarco]

^ yep in nba live or 2k

 

[raptors29]

Originally Posted by westcoastsfinest


more championships.

 i kid i kid


IMO to be greater than jordan...its more than winning rings, medals and MVPs...you gotta become an icon and what i mean by that is globalizing the sport, revolutionizing the shoe game and endoresments to the max

i mean when everyone sees that jumpman logo almost everyone knows its mike...the fact is that he brought attention to the casual fans and non fans that dont even watch sports......................thats big shoes to fill which is why its unfair for players after mike to even be compared or mentioned in the same breath.

thats a lot of pressure for them


just my 2 cents

QFT. I couldn't have said it better myself. 

 

[phatballa23]

Formula to be considered greater than MJ?

-Win more championships than MJ
-Have better offensive stats than MJ
-Have better defensive stats than MJ
-Be a better defender than MJ
-Be clutcher than MJ
-Win more MVPs than MJ
-Win more Finals MVPs than MJ
-Get more recognition than MJ
-Expand the game of basketball to further areas than MJ
-Have a better shoe line than MJ
-Be a greater leader than MJ
-Be more exciting to watch than MJ

That's all you gotta do, then you will be better than MJ.

 

[bighead2205]

Bring about world peace

 

[dontae]

There will be no greater player than MJ! sorrry

 

[roc4life24]

Originally Posted by dontae

There will be no greater player than MJ! sorrry

at one point Wilt was the best, then Bird and Magic, then MJ came along. Everything evolves or a slight improvement on it. There will  be someone better to come along and perfect things Jordan couldn't do right.

we went from paper cups and strings to Motorola Rzr to Iphone. Someone is acoming whether we live to see it or not.

For the kobe argument:: he spent 2003-2008 losing, so missed alotta time closing the distance between him and MJ.

 

[mronegative]

Not let your teammate %+@@ your momma.