Why don't sportcasters keep it real about Lebron?

[4shoposite]

 
double.

 

[chitown4eva]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by amel223

You're assuming OP is saying that Lebron can't get to the rim.  Reading comprehension FTL.

OP: "For once I wish a guy like JVG would say..."It's obvious that Lebron really can't beat his man one on one." Just once!" Seems like he's saying that to me. Now to leave this thread before another IDIOT uses the "stats don't matter!" copout.

Still no reading comprehension.  I'm not exactly sure if OP is explaining it in the best possible way, but I completely understand what he's getting at.

Too many of y'all getting butt hurt and defensive and not really listening to what he's saying.

Notice OP never said Lebron isn't the best sf in the game.  He never said Lebron wasn't good. 

It is a tremendous testimony to Lebron's talent that he scored 30 ppg despite just one limitation that OP is talking about. 

As much as I hate Lebron, I respect his IQ and his understanding of the game.  He understands matchups, pick and rolls, he has that passing ability that makes defenses constantly have to adjust.  He understands driving angles, he knows how to use his body to maximum effect.  Combine all this with his athleticism and it's obvious why he is a capable 30 ppg scorer in the league.

Too many people on here using foolish logic like "he's averaging 30 ppg so he HAS to have a quick first step"

Foolish logic. 

He doesn't have it and he doesn't need it to score 30 ppg.  But what it does is it makes it harder for him to close in the end of games. 

Can he close?  YES. 

Is it incredibly hard for him to do so compared to a Wade, a Kobe, a Melo?  I believe so. 

I think that's all OP is trying to say and that's it.

*waits for people to come in here with stats*

You were correct until you said incredibly hard.  Lebron gets just as good a look as any of those cats, he just isn't as good a shooter.  And that is the ONLY thing that separates him from those guys.

Which is why... 

even if I accept what OP is saying to be true (which I don't given his size and weight his first step is incredible) it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant so painfully irrelevant.

 

[chitown4eva]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by amel223

You're assuming OP is saying that Lebron can't get to the rim.  Reading comprehension FTL.

OP: "For once I wish a guy like JVG would say..."It's obvious that Lebron really can't beat his man one on one." Just once!" Seems like he's saying that to me. Now to leave this thread before another IDIOT uses the "stats don't matter!" copout.

Still no reading comprehension.  I'm not exactly sure if OP is explaining it in the best possible way, but I completely understand what he's getting at.

Too many of y'all getting butt hurt and defensive and not really listening to what he's saying.

Notice OP never said Lebron isn't the best sf in the game.  He never said Lebron wasn't good. 

It is a tremendous testimony to Lebron's talent that he scored 30 ppg despite just one limitation that OP is talking about. 

As much as I hate Lebron, I respect his IQ and his understanding of the game.  He understands matchups, pick and rolls, he has that passing ability that makes defenses constantly have to adjust.  He understands driving angles, he knows how to use his body to maximum effect.  Combine all this with his athleticism and it's obvious why he is a capable 30 ppg scorer in the league.

Too many people on here using foolish logic like "he's averaging 30 ppg so he HAS to have a quick first step"

Foolish logic. 

He doesn't have it and he doesn't need it to score 30 ppg.  But what it does is it makes it harder for him to close in the end of games. 

Can he close?  YES. 

Is it incredibly hard for him to do so compared to a Wade, a Kobe, a Melo?  I believe so. 

I think that's all OP is trying to say and that's it.

*waits for people to come in here with stats*

You were correct until you said incredibly hard.  Lebron gets just as good a look as any of those cats, he just isn't as good a shooter.  And that is the ONLY thing that separates him from those guys.

Which is why... 

even if I accept what OP is saying to be true (which I don't given his size and weight his first step is incredible) it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant so painfully irrelevant.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.

I'm surprised people are really having a debate with dude. 

The only starting player in the league I have seen Lebron comfortable enough to beat one on one is AK47. If you Bron fans want something to be happy about...but also see the difference in a player he is when he realizes he can beat his man...youtube a Jazz game. Only starting player at his position I have seen him truly comfortable against in the halfcourt.
  

Yet some how by magic he keeps scoring more points than anyone in crunch time, and also scoring more efficiently than Wade, Durant, and Carmelo in half court isolation situations, like I said at best the point is irrelevant man.

This can't be real, this is a fake accout.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.

I'm surprised people are really having a debate with dude. 

The only starting player in the league I have seen Lebron comfortable enough to beat one on one is AK47. If you Bron fans want something to be happy about...but also see the difference in a player he is when he realizes he can beat his man...youtube a Jazz game. Only starting player at his position I have seen him truly comfortable against in the halfcourt.
  

Yet some how by magic he keeps scoring more points than anyone in crunch time, and also scoring more efficiently than Wade, Durant, and Carmelo in half court isolation situations, like I said at best the point is irrelevant man.

This can't be real, this is a fake accout.

 

[4shoposite]

It's not irrelevant if you can tell the difference between David Robinson averaging 30 and Hakeem averaging 27.

If you can sit here whole heartedly and believe that Lebron is anywhere the pure scorer that Wade, Durant, and Carmelo is then so be it. There's nothing more to argue. But I don't know how this stat you have determines isolation scoring so i'm calling that irrelevant until you provide a link so I can determine for myself.

 

[4shoposite]

It's not irrelevant if you can tell the difference between David Robinson averaging 30 and Hakeem averaging 27.

If you can sit here whole heartedly and believe that Lebron is anywhere the pure scorer that Wade, Durant, and Carmelo is then so be it. There's nothing more to argue. But I don't know how this stat you have determines isolation scoring so i'm calling that irrelevant until you provide a link so I can determine for myself.

 

[sneakerfr]

Originally Posted by knightngale

he uses his strength and speed...dude is not really quick but that is widely known

he will fall off hard once his body  starts breaking down a la kobe...same thing with wade...they are 90% athleticism and 10% skill

and dont bring up kobes jumper in comparison because dude has not been the same since jason kidd messed up his fingers in 2008

In '07 he shot 42% from 16-23 feet http://www.hoopdata.com/p....aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant which is still lower than what lebron shoots from that range this year (44%) & is comparable to the 40% that he shot from that range last season http://www.hoopdata.com/p...aspx?name=LeBron%20James

 

[sneakerfr]

Originally Posted by knightngale

he uses his strength and speed...dude is not really quick but that is widely known

he will fall off hard once his body  starts breaking down a la kobe...same thing with wade...they are 90% athleticism and 10% skill

and dont bring up kobes jumper in comparison because dude has not been the same since jason kidd messed up his fingers in 2008

In '07 he shot 42% from 16-23 feet http://www.hoopdata.com/p....aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant which is still lower than what lebron shoots from that range this year (44%) & is comparable to the 40% that he shot from that range last season http://www.hoopdata.com/p...aspx?name=LeBron%20James

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.

I'm surprised people are really having a debate with dude. 

The only starting player in the league I have seen Lebron comfortable enough to beat one on one is AK47. If you Bron fans want something to be happy about...but also see the difference in a player he is when he realizes he can beat his man...youtube a Jazz game. Only starting player at his position I have seen him truly comfortable against in the halfcourt.
  

Yet some how by magic he keeps scoring more points than anyone in crunch time, and also scoring more efficiently than Wade, Durant, and Carmelo in half court isolation situations, like I said at best the point is irrelevant man.

This can't be real, this is a fake accout.

You know how it is. For fans with sense and reason, if they have a question or a theory about something they see if the evidence actually supports it.THESE fans though? It works in reverse. Make a claim, then reject all evidence to the contrary. That is, until they DO find evidence to back up their claim - then watch how stats start to matter after all.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.

I'm surprised people are really having a debate with dude. 

The only starting player in the league I have seen Lebron comfortable enough to beat one on one is AK47. If you Bron fans want something to be happy about...but also see the difference in a player he is when he realizes he can beat his man...youtube a Jazz game. Only starting player at his position I have seen him truly comfortable against in the halfcourt.
  

Yet some how by magic he keeps scoring more points than anyone in crunch time, and also scoring more efficiently than Wade, Durant, and Carmelo in half court isolation situations, like I said at best the point is irrelevant man.

This can't be real, this is a fake accout.

You know how it is. For fans with sense and reason, if they have a question or a theory about something they see if the evidence actually supports it.THESE fans though? It works in reverse. Make a claim, then reject all evidence to the contrary. That is, until they DO find evidence to back up their claim - then watch how stats start to matter after all.

 

[lukethejediknight]

"There's nothing more to argue. But I don't know how this stat you have determines isolation scoring so i'm calling that irrelevant until you provide a link so I can determine for myself."

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[4shoposite]

So let me ask this: what are you disagreeing with me on?

I say Lebron has a sorry first step: Lebron says he has a sorry first step.

I believe that Lebron doesn't have a pure scoring sense: Others have agreed. Some have even said the guy lacks skills. Some have said he can't dribble. Some have said his jumper is sorry, etc.

I posted a video properly showing exactly what I'm talking about: A naysayer posted a video of what I actually was talking about.

I still believe Lebron is a great player. I still believe that his strengths in a team concept probably makes up for this flaw.

All i'm saying is that Lebron has a weak first step and his pure offensive ability is below average to my standards. Does my standards matter? No...but all I'm trying to do is explain to see if people have seen what I've seen.

 

[lukethejediknight]

"There's nothing more to argue. But I don't know how this stat you have determines isolation scoring so i'm calling that irrelevant until you provide a link so I can determine for myself."

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[4shoposite]

So let me ask this: what are you disagreeing with me on?

I say Lebron has a sorry first step: Lebron says he has a sorry first step.

I believe that Lebron doesn't have a pure scoring sense: Others have agreed. Some have even said the guy lacks skills. Some have said he can't dribble. Some have said his jumper is sorry, etc.

I posted a video properly showing exactly what I'm talking about: A naysayer posted a video of what I actually was talking about.

I still believe Lebron is a great player. I still believe that his strengths in a team concept probably makes up for this flaw.

All i'm saying is that Lebron has a weak first step and his pure offensive ability is below average to my standards. Does my standards matter? No...but all I'm trying to do is explain to see if people have seen what I've seen.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

 

[bigtimejerky]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.


  

as i recall his first step was just as quick as Brons.... Grant Hill just has better handles. If you're going to compare Kobe/MJs 1 on 1 game to Brons... then obviously its going to seem not to par. He uses the mismatch more than anything. But he still gets it done, so I don't really get your argument. If you put the ball in the basket, youre a scorer. Its really that simple.

 

[bigtimejerky]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Its called a jab step.
His "first step" is considered elite because he knows how to get his defender guessing and off balance... Only players that should have a quick "first step" are 6 ft. point guards.

6'8". Even Pippen said he didn't know how to properly stay in front of him.


  

as i recall his first step was just as quick as Brons.... Grant Hill just has better handles. If you're going to compare Kobe/MJs 1 on 1 game to Brons... then obviously its going to seem not to par. He uses the mismatch more than anything. But he still gets it done, so I don't really get your argument. If you put the ball in the basket, youre a scorer. Its really that simple.

 

[Clyde Frog]

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

[Clyde Frog]

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

as i recall his first step was just as quick as Brons.... Grant Hill just has better handles. If you're going to compare Kobe/MJs 1 on 1 game to Brons... then obviously its going to seem not to par. He uses the mismatch more than anything. But he still gets it done, so I don't really get your argument. If you put the ball in the basket, youre a scorer. Its really that simple.

Nah man...Grant Hill had a MUCH better first step than Lebron. It's not even fair to compare. Grant Hill had simple handles...ala Jordan, but yes - his crossover, though basic, was very good. I've watched Lebron when he was shorter and much slimmer in highschool, and I like he said, don't even think he's ever had that good of a first step. That's why I wonder if announcers who get paid actually understand what they are saying.
  
And it's not always that simple...atleast not in my definition. My definition of a scorer does not equal results of putting the ball in the basket. If Derek Fisher spots up for a three and makes 8 of them fairly easy because of the attention Kobe provides - is he a scorer? Like I said, the game is more than just the stats.

You saying that Lebron depends on mismatches is basically what I'm saying is the core problem with the dude...and when the game is critical and you need a basket, that's not dependable to me. Someone can provide stats, someone can say this is "4th quarter scoring"...but the measuring of a basketball player strictly lies in actually how they play on the court. In sports, numbers can lie. Just think about that for the 2nd...the quote on quote best player in the world depends on mismatches to score.

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

as i recall his first step was just as quick as Brons.... Grant Hill just has better handles. If you're going to compare Kobe/MJs 1 on 1 game to Brons... then obviously its going to seem not to par. He uses the mismatch more than anything. But he still gets it done, so I don't really get your argument. If you put the ball in the basket, youre a scorer. Its really that simple.

Nah man...Grant Hill had a MUCH better first step than Lebron. It's not even fair to compare. Grant Hill had simple handles...ala Jordan, but yes - his crossover, though basic, was very good. I've watched Lebron when he was shorter and much slimmer in highschool, and I like he said, don't even think he's ever had that good of a first step. That's why I wonder if announcers who get paid actually understand what they are saying.
  
And it's not always that simple...atleast not in my definition. My definition of a scorer does not equal results of putting the ball in the basket. If Derek Fisher spots up for a three and makes 8 of them fairly easy because of the attention Kobe provides - is he a scorer? Like I said, the game is more than just the stats.

You saying that Lebron depends on mismatches is basically what I'm saying is the core problem with the dude...and when the game is critical and you need a basket, that's not dependable to me. Someone can provide stats, someone can say this is "4th quarter scoring"...but the measuring of a basketball player strictly lies in actually how they play on the court. In sports, numbers can lie. Just think about that for the 2nd...the quote on quote best player in the world depends on mismatches to score.

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

 

[throwedindagame]

31 post....not a good way to start off your NT career.

 

[throwedindagame]

31 post....not a good way to start off your NT career.