You are being lied to about Somali Pirates.

[kickinheadz1010]

^ ^ Thanks...the bolding/supersize grabs my attention.

I don't really have a grill

 

[thebachellor]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik


I can understand how you misinterpreted some of the things I said at the bottom though it is pretty vague. I had no intention to support everything they are doing.

I was just trying to play Devils advocate in saying that maybe it wasn't such a bad thing if it brings attention to the serious situation there. The injustices being done to an already impoverished country.

EDIT: Bachellor you have to accept the fact that there is a lot of information that we simply do not know about these pirates. So we really can't generalize when we say "they are doing it for the money," or "they are the bad pirates and there are other good pirates."

Like you said, the pirates have been there for a while now doing illegal stuff, but still nothing has changed and no attention has been brought to the situation.

I'm sure money is a huge motive, but I still believe that bringing attention to the situation is partially a cause. It has to be. Why else would the Somalians support them so much?

I didn't misinterpret anything. That's what you wrote and that's what you were trying to convey.

As far as generalizing goes, i'm going off of what your article said; it implied that there are good and bad ones. So take that up with thewriter, not me.

At least you acknowledge that money is a cause.... this other guy is something else

.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

This Bachellor dude

....extra remedial.

Former fishermen...can't make money because of illegal fishing and toxic dumping...they put down fishing rods and pick up guns...they are now consideredpirates.

Some pirates have noble motivations...some have selfish motivations...but $ is at the root of all of the situations.

Simple and clear enough for you?

My first response to you was that there are different "strains" of pirates. You reply with...

So if you believe that all of them are holding humans for multi-million dollar ransoms for toxic dumping as opposed to monetary gain... and not a SINGLE ONE of the many pirates (yes pirates, NOT fishermen) is in it for ANY gain whatsoever... then you're the most ignorant person i've had correspondance with.

 

[thebachellor]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

This Bachellor dude

....extra remedial.

Former fishermen...can't make money because of illegal fishing and toxic dumping...they put down fishing rods and pick up guns...they are now considered pirates.

Some pirates have noble motivations...some have selfish motivations...but $ is at the root of all of the situations.

Simple and clear enough for you?

My first response to you was that there are different "strains" of pirates. You reply with...

So if you believe that all of them are holding humans for multi-million dollar ransoms for toxic dumping as opposed to monetary gain... and not a SINGLE ONE of the many pirates (yes pirates, NOT fishermen) is in it for ANY gain whatsoever... then you're the most ignorant person i've had correspondance with.

Um... that's because you said:

Did you read the article that I posted at the bottom of page 2....they are hi-jacking ship and demanding ransom for the dumping being done off of their coasts...they are former fishermen who now use guns.

after I made it CLEAR that I was talking about the pirates in it for monetary gain. So what does that imply? That your statement was referring to thepirates that I was talking about.

Now you're trying to flip it saying some may have "selfish motivations", as if you weren't arguing the contrary before.

.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by TheBachellor

Originally Posted by Mo Matik


I can understand how you misinterpreted some of the things I said at the bottom though it is pretty vague. I had no intention to support everything they are doing.

I was just trying to play Devils advocate in saying that maybe it wasn't such a bad thing if it brings attention to the serious situation there. The injustices being done to an already impoverished country.

EDIT: Bachellor you have to accept the fact that there is a lot of information that we simply do not know about these pirates. So we really can't generalize when we say "they are doing it for the money," or "they are the bad pirates and there are other good pirates."

Like you said, the pirates have been there for a while now doing illegal stuff, but still nothing has changed and no attention has been brought to the situation.

I'm sure money is a huge motive, but I still believe that bringing attention to the situation is partially a cause. It has to be. Why else would the Somalians support them so much?

I didn't misinterpret anything. That's what you wrote and that's what you were trying to convey.

As far as generalizing goes, i'm going off of what your article said; it implied that there are good and bad ones. So take that up with the writer, not me.

At least you acknowledge that money is a cause.... this other guy is something else

I'm not going to lie to you about what I was trying to say. And there is really no way to prove my intentions to you, so you can believe thatif you want.

I recognize that the writer says that there are good and bad pirates.

yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies.
But like I said in the edit of the last post. We simply don't know. Of course in the example the writer cited makes sense. Yes, that isabsolutely wrong and will not do anything to help the poverty in Somalia. That type of thing you can expect in a region with so little education and such ahigh rate of poverty.

What I'm referring to when I say it could very well be an attempt to bring attention to the raping of Somali territory is in the recent situation withRichard Phillips.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Nako XL

what the op and everyone in this thread cosigning him AREN'T mentioning is that piracy isn't a new occurrence in that region, it's been there for 500 years. before it was europeans and asians, now it just happens to be somali. yes the overfishing contributes to the immence poverty in the region and as a result people may feel the necessity to turn to piracy, but its not a DIRECT result.

as long as there's open water and the inability to police it properly, there will be pirates. implying they only do it as a result of the western influenced factors you named is naivety.

western factors are probably the biggest influence in this case
it is not like pirates come about for the same reason in every era and context

somalia isn't a wealthy nation. the poor are more likely to commit crimes. it's a fact.

it sucks that those things happened yes, but people in this thread are trying to depict these guys as freedom fighters, when 80% of them are not. to say allthe pirates are just trying to draw attention to the plight of their country is foolish. piracy is a fast means to an end. the same argument made in attemptsto justify this can be made about any other illegal profession. "i'm poor therefore i turn to a life of crime." the only difference here is whothe fingers are pointed at.

 

[ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Nako XL

what the op and everyone in this thread cosigning him AREN'T mentioning is that piracy isn't a new occurrence in that region, it's been there for 500 years. before it was europeans and asians, now it just happens to be somali. yes the overfishing contributes to the immence poverty in the region and as a result people may feel the necessity to turn to piracy, but its not a DIRECT result.

as long as there's open water and the inability to police it properly, there will be pirates. implying they only do it as a result of the western influenced factors you named is naivety.

western factors are probably the biggest influence in this case
it is not like pirates come about for the same reason in every era and context

somalia isn't a wealthy nation. the poor are more likely to commit crimes. it's a fact.

it sucks that those things happened yes, but people in this thread are trying to depict these guys as freedom fighters, when 80% of them are not. to say all the pirates are just trying to draw attention to the plight of their country is foolish. piracy is a fast means to an end. the same argument made in attempts to justify this can be made about any other illegal profession. "i'm poor therefore i turn to a life of crime." the only difference here is who the fingers are pointed at.

Check out the thread I just made. You might be surprised to see how wealthy they are.

 

[dearwinter219]

So yeah.... I'm assuming haze is making some sort of logical point that people are trying to nitpick and take out of context.... correct?

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by TheBachellor


after I made it CLEAR that I was talking about the pirates in it for monetary gain. So what does that imply? That your statement was referring to the pirates that I was talking about.

Now you're trying to flip it saying some may have "selfish motivations", as if you weren't arguing the contrary before.

You win B...You win.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

They want money, they're not brutal murderers. We have killed more of them then they have killed hostages.

Well America is allowed to protect its own interests, which is what happened. America does not negotiate with terrorists, and this is nodifferent. If you're holding an American hostage, there are two ways it's going to end:

1. You're going to end it on your own accord by releasing or killing the hostage.
2. If special forces can make a calculated move with a high chance of success, then they will end your life.

Simple as that.

I cannot believe there are people defending these lowlifes.

 

[bwoodfolkgd74]

 

[dr spaceman]

Im never reading beyond the first post in these threads ever again.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

So yeah.... I'm assuming haze is making some sort of logical point that people are trying to nitpick and take out of context.... correct?

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Originally Posted by TheBachellor


after I made it CLEAR that I was talking about the pirates in it for monetary gain. So what does that imply? That your statement was referring to the pirates that I was talking about.

Now you're trying to flip it saying some may have "selfish motivations", as if you weren't arguing the contrary before.

You win B...You win.

Never mind. It never changes...

 

[03silverbullet]

i read this a week or so ago and have been telling everyone i know about it. most are sheep and still don't believe we are ever lied to.

 

[dr spaceman]

Really, i don't know why you even bother haze.

 

[djprestige21]

Not to be the token republican but get one article that starts down talking American or Americans the internet gets borderline orgasmic. Just look at thesources axisoflogic is one of the most extreme liberal sites on the internet, there is absolutely no moderation. CNN, Fox, MSNBC and every other news titan hasboth extreme liberal and conservative minds yet they have to write somewhat moderate or it masks the facts, otherwise known as trying to hard to sway a mind.

 

[ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by Dr Spaceman

Really, i don't know why you even bother haze.

Look at the thread I just posted.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

They want money, they're not brutal murderers. We have killed more of them then they have killed hostages.

Well America is allowed to protect its own interests, which is what happened. America does not negotiate with terrorists, and this is no different. If you're holding an American hostage, there are two ways it's going to end:

1. You're going to end it on your own accord by releasing or killing the hostage.
2. If special forces can make a calculated move with a high chance of success, then they will end your life.

Simple as that.

I cannot believe there are people defending these lowlifes.

Because when injustices are performed on a 3rd world country, and the higher powers that be refuse to acknowledge the injustices, then we see violence.

This is the case. This has always been the case. You can either acknowledge it, or you can call it a coincidence, one of which will make you look naive.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Instead of people just taking the time to understand the history behind a situation and analyzing it logically...they revert back to their childhood of cops ofrobbers.

One side is purely evil the other side is totally righteous.

The ending result is always dead young American servicemen...thousands of dead young impoverished foreigners...the continuation of global unrest....and theruling class behind the problem in the first place, lines their pockets further..waiting for the next situation to put the us vs them spin on.

 

[ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Instead of people just taking the time to understand the history behind a situation and analyzing it logically...they revert back to their childhood of cops of robbers.

One side is purely evil the other side is totally righteous.

The ending result is always dead young American servicemen...thousands of dead young impoverished foreigners...the continuation of global unrest....and the ruling class behind the problem in the first place, lines their pockets further..waiting for the next situation to put the us vs them spin on.

Yo look at the thread I just posted.

 

[thebachellor]

Originally Posted by DJprestige21

Not to be the token republican but get one article that starts down talking American or Americans the internet gets borderline orgasmic.

Yea man... I don't know what it is. I'm just tired of these fools faking open-mindedness and acting as if they're enlightened when somethinglike this hits the web.

Then you have the groupies co-signing just off of who it is... not even taking in to account the convo at hand

.

NT is too much sometimes

 

[harlemtothebronx]

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Dr Spaceman

Really, i don't know why you even bother haze.

Neither do I.

Now these dudes want to turn this into a conservative vs. liberal argument....a thread about Somalia

Wow.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by mdresident

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

I wonder if abeautifulhaze would be so sympathetic if he or one of his close family members was held hostage by the nice former fisherman guys.

I think you are missing the point. The point is, they were forced to become pirates to survive.

Regardless of what somebody was forced to do or not, how would YOU feel about being heldhostage or one of your family members being held hostage by pirates? I'm missing the point???

. My dude when you are in tight situationslike that you aint thinking about nothing but survival.

I SHOULD KNOW I WAS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A COUP ATTEMPT IN MANILA PHILLIPINNES IN 2003. You think I was worried aboutwho was right or wrong or why they was trying to take over Makati City? It was pure survival instincts to get me back to Ninoy Aquino Airport. The hotel downthe street from me was taken hostage.

Don't tell me I don't know what the @%!! I'm talkign about.

 

[lifelessons]

europeans still trying to rape african country's

.....europe has done africa wrong for centuries.....its sad