2007 - Whole Lot Of @#%$ Has Changed.

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Gentry, get money, eff and do you



Yeah. G is gonna do him. G is really gonna be doing himself when he and the rest of JB sees their company go through their version of Black Tuesday... :lol:
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BRAVES BASEBALL​
....yeah right​
 
Dang! :smh:
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! I was looking forward to the 11's, and DMP 2. I was def. going to cop.



WWJD
TEAM BACKPACKBEAST
 
You know, as much as I'd like to agree with nearly everyone that's overall message is that they want the past back, I just can't.

You all claim to desire one thing over all others: the continuation of Jordan Brand.

I could not agree with you all more in that sense, however - take a step back and realize the following: most of you have chosen to be stuck in the past, and refuse to accept the fact that Jordan Brand must make extreme changes, many of which we have already witnessed, many more of which I'm sure are headed our way, in hopes of continuing its success long into the future.

Sure, in our eyes, JB may be ruining classics, but you HAVE to look at from another angle - these "classics" as we deem them, are the shoes JB currently has to work with. They are their money makers. For the company to continue to make ridiculous profits, they must release them in new, wild, "fresh", colors.

Hate it or love it, it is what it is. Each and every one of us must look at Jordan Brand's decisions from a business standpoint, not necessarily a loyaly to ten years ago standpoint.

The company, unlike Nike, has 21 shoes to work with (outside of their team line which I personally know next to nothing about), and only 14 of those 21 models have been re-released to this point.

To the mass market, JB is on top, and they have gotten to that position (the position of appealing to the masses) by their constant re-release in wild colorways of the same fourteen shoes.

Think, for example, about the Laser V. In OG heads, or even knowledgable younger cats, throwing lasering all over such a beautiful shoe is tacky and tasteless.

HOWEVER, think of the Laser V at your school, or if you are not in school, at your local mall. Kids will go absolutely CRAZY for the shoe, and JB fully realizes that. The shoe, beautiful or not, with lasering, will "break necks," and as a result, will sell extremely well.

I'm just as frusterated as the next person about the way the future III's look (like cheap variants), or that the V, as I mentioned, will be lasered. But, we still must look at reality. JB is an extremely successful company appealing to the masses, and it's current business plan, BUSINESS PLAN, looks.... dare I say - good.

That is, it looks good for the next four-five years. After that, man, we may as well kiss JB goodbye the way I see it.

Anyway, take this post for what it is, but I am trying to take an approach rarely seen on this board.

Lovin' The 317
Proud To Be From Indy
 
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07 blk/silver 5s. no NIKE AIR id buy 1-2 MAX, NIKE AIR id buy minimum 4-5. multiplied by 1000, that raises sales from 1-2 thousand pairs to 4 or 5 thousand. at $135, thats $135,000 to $675,000 dollars. all because of a simple logo that belongs there in the firest place.


My dude, those are horrible calculations. Only people that cop multiples are Heads, and resellers. The General public is copping 1 pair a piece.

You passed doing what you loved the most
R.I.P. John LaBarbera
1989 - 10/17/2005
Even though you're gone, we're still a team
 
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07 blk/silver 5s. no NIKE AIR id buy 1-2 MAX, NIKE AIR id buy minimum 4-5. multiplied by 1000, that raises sales from 1-2 thousand pairs to 4 or 5 thousand. at $135, thats $135,000 to $675,000 dollars. all because of a simple logo that belongs there in the firest place.


^ true to me. I would've bought and kept at least 3 pairs for myself if they looked like OG's.

Now, I might even pass on a 'Nu' Retro.


Face it... all the retros we get are 'Nu' Retros.

That's why they're labeled '4' instead of 'IV'. They lost their 'Roman' (Originial) influence.
C H R I S T M A S A P E T H E M O V I E . C O M[/url]
 
I find it funny that a lot of you "heads" are still complaining about not having a Nike Air on your re-issued sneakers, when the Brand itself is falling by the wayside-- and not because they're putting a Jumpman on their shoes.
WANTED: Nike Dunk SB HULK size 12​
 
That's just one of MANY reasons.......
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Imagine this. What if in the future, Lebron pulled a Jordan Brand. 15 years from now they would start to retro the first Lebron shoes. The shoes would have no swoosh. This would be replaced by the Lebron logo. How wack would that look. This is exactly how I feel when it comes to Jordans I-VI, not having the Nike Air logo.
Air Jordan came from NIke. Period.
 
I tried to write this reply last night. Comcast went down and I lost EVERYTHING I spent the evening writing. So here goes, one more time.

I love this post. This has to be the most entertaining post of the year. It has a little of everything. On point inside info from Baby J. A well thought out reply from Meth. Humor from Rock Deep. A little Hump loving, but a lot of Hump hating, all around. Actually, more vehement and venomous opinions than I've ever seen in a single post, and that's in 6 plus years of Niketalk. And, lest we forget, Cam's Tourette's-like outburst.
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LOL. What more could you ask for? It's been the best stuff I've read all week.

Before I continue, there are a few quotes I just HAD to respond to.


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Its funny how people want to crucify Gentry yet the guy has been with Nike since 1989.


Seniority and longevity with a company are cool and all, but the way I look at it, if you can't make sound decisions in the present, and you don't come up with a clear, solid, well thought out vision for what the future direction of your company should be, then you obviously don't belong. It's clear Hump doesn't have his "ear to the sidewalk" so to speak. Sheesh, as it stands, seems like dude couldn't HIT sidewalk if he tripped over a curb. Longevity alone does not a successful executive make.

Same dude:


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I find it funny that someone that has dedicated their life and help make Air Jordans the phenomenon it is today and everyone hates him.


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That's a pretty laughable point of view. That's like saying an overstuffed pencil pusher such as Jerry Krause, who wouldn't know a basketball from a medicine ball, helped make MJ's ON COURT skill into the phenomenon IT became. Seeing as how Hump didn't join Brand Jordan until 1997, and the NIKE Air Jordan line was established at "mythic" status by, oh, the late 80's, I'd venture to say that Hump had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the evolution of the Jordan line. But thanks for the chuckle.

Thinking about it, Hump probably wouldn't shy away from taking credit for all that the Air Jordan line became. Legend in his own mind, he is. Sorry Hump, but the die hards will ALWAYS remember the history. Didn't MJ himself once say (in SLAM magazine's original "KICKS" issue from July 1998, to be exact), "Never forget where we came from, you know? Yesterday's how we got to today. And today is how we determine how tomorrow's going to be."

Now, I know I'm getting up in age, and I've been hit in the head a few times over the years, but I think it went more or less like that. I guess they ALL must have forgotten that quote when they sat around the boardroom discussing ditching the NIKE Air logo back in '01.

Anyways. Next.


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Sorry to say but WRONG. No one ON NT gives a damn about the team line. however, the general public loves these shoes. How many people do you see rocking team J's? I see mothers, dads, children, babysitters, everyone rocking team J's. They're afordable and these people get to be wearing "jordans". There have been plenty of times while I'm out people will say "hey you rock J's too!!!" and they'll be wearing a team J. The public does not make the distiction of the team line vs. the flagship models. Hell they don't even make the distiction of retros vs new J's. We here at NT might not buy the Dubs, teams, or 8x colors of the IV but the mass market does. When consumers who are looking to go buy shoes go to footlocker, footaction, finishline, or whatever they see team J's and see a jumpman on them they think to themselves "oh these are Jordans, YEAH! Oh snap only 79 bucks!" and they buy them. They don't care if its the XXII, XIV's, teams, trunners or whatever as long as they have a jumpan on them.


Dude has a very valid point. The general public naturally is not going to be as discerning as your average NTer. We are the "die hards," and admit it or not, we're generally a minority. But a "general public" consumer can just walk in your run of the mill Foot Locker, find a pair of Team Jordans complete with the Jumpman slapped on the heel, and at a reasonable price, that looks cool in a colorway that they like, and voila. They've just bought a brand spankin' new pair of "Jordans!" And if that makes someone happy, hey that's cool. More power to 'em. Like it or not, there is a market for the Team line. That being said, if I were in charge of MARKETING decisions for a NEARLY billion dollar leg of a MULTI billion dollar corporation, I'm not so sure I'd hedge the entire future direction of said company on just a Team line of shoes, considering where today's proven record of success came from.


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I'm beginning to believe Gentry is either:

1. A mentally challenged individual

or

2. A mentally challenged individual


Word. Preacher, choir. Choir, preacher.


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Air Jordan came from NIke. Period.


Amen, brother.

One last quote:


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07 blk/silver 5s. no NIKE AIR id buy 1-2 MAX, NIKE AIR id buy minimum 4-5. multiplied by 1000, that raises sales from 1-2 thousand pairs to 4 or 5 thousand. at $135, thats $135,000 to $675,000 dollars. all because of a simple logo that belongs there in the firest place.


When someone speaks about my favorite shoe, you know I'm going to throw my dime in the mix. There's a reason I have ten pairs total between OG's and Retros of the black/silver AJ V. And rest assured, that reason had NOTHING to do with a Jumpman being slapped on the heel. The AJ V was a NIKE Air Jordan, not a JB Air Jordan. What's coming out in January is NOT the same shoe, therefore it's an easy pass for me. This coming straight from the "Mr. AJ V" of Niketalk himself. I won't get into WHY NIKE Air means so much to us OG's and die hards, because I've been flogging that dead horse for over 3 years now, and besides that there would probably be 10 noobs waiting in the wings with gasoline hoses and matches. I'll simply say that what JB is giving us in January is straight garbage. And don't EVEN get me started on what the Fire Red III's look like. End of story.

So the way I look at the big picture here is this. Hump made this bed, now he gets to lay in it. Simple as that. I'm not bashing and hating on Hump just for the sake of jumping on the bandwagon of bashing and hating, which as I write this is snowballing to a size even larger than Brian Billick's ego over in Baltimore (my hometown
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). It hasn't quite reached the size of the "Hang Kerry Collins" congregation that had assembled out here in Oakland up until recently, complete with rope, pitchforks, torches, and Glocks, but I digress. This whole mess that is JB presently, Hump had a bigger hand than most in creating it and letting it boil. I've been thinking and stating for a few years now (AND been getting flamed for it from time to time) that the JB bubble would burst at some point. They've been watering down the market for years with a combination of too much releasing too closely together, with quality generally on the decline, and core customer dissatisfaction now steadily and visibly on the rise. Not the best trends to have. Well, it seems as though the time has finally come to pass where we're all going to actually watch this happen. How the mighty do fall. There was Death Row. Enron. Charlie Sheen (every other year). And now, JB looks to be starting down a similar path. We're about to see desperate times, and I'm sure some desperate measures to go along with them.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for Hump. However, I must say this, and it may surprise a few. I also don't have sympathy for MJ or for what his brand may be about to go through. He's the main person, possibly besides Larry Miller, that gives Hump his power. Come on, if MJ said "make it so," NIKE Air could be back tomorrow. But honestly, I feel the man's way out of touch with his own company. He's basically letting all these other people run it. Does MJ even give his input anymore? The man is who we've all looked up to for the past 20 plus years. He's been an exemplary figure in most areas, and he's displayed an exceptional level of excellence in pretty much every area. *EXCEPT* that is, the areas of being either an executive OR a baseball player. I feel ultimately HE'S the one who has forgotten where he came from, and forgotten the magic that made "Air Jordan" what it is today. Otherwise, he'd be doing something about issues such as quality, butchered Retros, distribution, etc. And he'd be doing something about those responsible for creating and perpetuating said issues. Sorry Mike, but you're gonna learn this one the hard way.

Yeah, I joke, and I may try to add a little humor here and there, but in my heart I think it's sad to watch a real titan on the decline like this. Brand Jordan was supposed to be about preserving and continuing the legacy of the greatest basketball player who ever lived. Everyone in this post who has pointed to the fact that all this negativity is eroding and slowly destroying that legacy have been on point. Whatever opinion any of you may have, one thing is for certain. It's an interesting time to be in the shoe game, and JB is at a crossroads. The next two years are going to be interesting to watch.

Anyways, I've said what was on my mind. My kitchen/computer room is at a humid 85 degrees right now, however I have an ice cold kiddie pool in the back yard with my name on it. Before I go swim, though, here's something I don't think anyone has asked yet. Will the Black Toe I's be "Jumpman Air" Retros?
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So until next time, this has been...this time.
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Worst case scenario JB ceases to exist and ya'll get your Nike Air heeled J's in 25+ years when MJ dies and the hype jumps back up. This is business, they'll figure something out.

We Takin It Way Back
Those were the days...​
 
Good stuff PainBL. Many good reads in this thread.

BabyJ, and other "insiders" - exactly how "dire" of a situation is Jordan Brand in at the moment and near future (1-2 years)? Are we seriously talking RIP JB or is this all a temporary glitch that Gentry will "solve" by putting out more retros? You mentioned that Gentry sees the end of the sig line - is the sig line actually going to end? When? At XXIII hopefully? I wonder because if the end is near for JB, whatever that may mean, I'd actually prefer it to really be done with rather than some 11th hour miracle(s) that brings JB back from the brink. This JB should not be preserved. Thanks.

JB might as well dissolve back into Nike. The sooner the better. Perhaps then we'll see Nike re-issue Jordans in a similar manner to that of the 94/95 days - in a simple, dignified, accurate succession. Looking back now, with an enthusiasm wearied by JB's antics, the 99 and 00 Nike Air Jordan Retros seem no more than lures to draw people's attention to JB. I can't say that those retros were released in good faith or for proper reasons. They're great to have but they weren't released with pure motives IMO.

In any case, it will be extremely interesting to see how things unfold.
 
No NikeAir or with NikeAir, retroes will still sell out eventually. If you buy 1-2 pairs instead of 4-5 pairs, those pairs that you didn't buy would be bought by someone else. Also, doesn't JB have to pay Nike to use their logo?
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Sorry to say but WRONG. No one ON NT gives a damn about the team line. however, the general public loves these shoes. How many people do you see rocking team J's? I see mothers, dads, children, babysitters, everyone rocking team J's. They're afordable and these people get to be wearing "jordans". There have been plenty of times while I'm out people will say "hey you rock J's too!!!" and they'll be wearing a team J. The public does not make the distiction of the team line vs. the flagship models. Hell they don't even make the distiction of retros vs new J's. We here at NT might not buy the Dubs, teams, or 8x colors of the IV but the mass market does. When consumers who are looking to go buy shoes go to footlocker, footaction, finishline, or whatever they see team J's and see a jumpman on them they think to themselves "oh these are Jordans, YEAH! Oh snap only 79 bucks!" and they buy them. They don't care if its the XXII, XIV's, teams, trunners or whatever as long as they have a jumpan on them.

So, it's your position that the general public simply wants to buy in to the Jordan phenomenon and team shoes grant them the lowest possible price of entry.

To me, that sounds an awful lot like the little Mercedes C230. It's a glorified Dodge Neon with a Tri-Star logo, and that's precisely its appeal. It's billed as the cheapest way to drive a Mercedes Benz.

Problem is: that approach only works if what you're selling is considered a prestigious brand.

Picture in your mind an inverted pyramid, balancing precariously on a single point. That's your "status" brand. You can generate hundreds of examples. Timmy and Tammy in the suburbs are into Bape because a handful of purported trendsetters like Pharrell have influenced their perception of the brand. So you have the influential consumer, which accounts for a miniscule percentage of sales, and you have the MASS consumer - in this case Timmy and Tammy - who account for the overwhelming majority of sales. From this, your typical middle aged suit who's just a little out of touch might say, "Gosh, these kids will buy ANYTHING with a Bape logo! We're putting out pajama tops with frankenberry patterns and they're paying $500 for it for cripes' sakes. Let's open it up a bit and start selling in chains like Up Against the Wall or something. Tone it down a notch and give it more mass appeal. Kids LOVE the brand. Let's give them more." You and I know what would happen.

If, all of the sudden, the truly dedicated "high-end" consumers or afficianados lose their appreciation for an "image" brand, the entire pyramid collapses. If the CORE audience rejects it, the mass audience will follow suit. The "average" consumer's interest is predicated in the product's STATUS.

That's what's at stake here. If current trends continue, Jordan brand can no longer be rightly considered a "luxury" brand.

Who endows the Jordan brand with its prestige? Kids who never saw Michael Jordan play? Soccer moms?

Mercedes sells a heck of a lot more C230s than AMG CLK GTR's. However, they NEED the CLK GTR, the E-Class, thus and so to appeal to true automotive enthusiasts and celebrities in order to move the C230. What happens when the high end car no longer appeals to the influential consumer? Take a look: www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/06...index.html

Now, Mercedes could look at that article and say "who cares!? We sold like 30 of those cars last year. Screw those people. Our bread is buttered in Car Max lots these days. We don't need those stuck up gearheads telling us how to run our business." Of course, in so doing they'd diminish the brand's IMAGE. The C230 sells because of the brand's reputation for quality and performance more so than for its own virtues. That reputation wasn't built with the C230, but by selling high end "fantasy" cars to the wealthy.

This is basic stuff, but apparently it's LOST on Jordan brand.

Dedicated sneakerheads may only account for 2% of the brand's overall revenue, but alienating this segment would carry a DISASTROUS consequence.
 
^^^Good post as usual, but you're comparing the effect celebrities have to the effect brand afficionados/loyalists have. Honestly, if all of NT leaves JB alone and celebrities still wear it/ rappers put it in their songs it will move units.

*Edit*

That was aimed at Meth, sorry for any confusion.

You passed doing what you loved the most
R.I.P. John LaBarbera
1989 - 10/17/2005
Even though you're gone, we're still a team
 
Comparing shoes to cars? I remember someone doing that in the General Forum and Bastitch shot that down quickly. I've seen bums in jay's, its really not the same thing.

We Takin It Way Back
Those were the days...​
 
I only have one question....And it's fairly straight-forward and I'm not expecting anyone to answer, just think:..if JB is no longer a division of NIKE...then why did the recent patent-leather one's have a swoosh on them?? It almost seem as thought on hand doesn't know what the other is doing when it comes to JB....PUT NIKE AIR BACK WHERE IT BELONGS...
Thanks
"Always borrow money from a pessimist cuz they won't expect you to pay it back...."
 
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The AJ V was a NIKE Air Jordan, not a JB Air Jordan. What's coming out in January is NOT the same shoe, therefore it's an easy pass for me.


Same here, man, same here.
 
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