Congress clears historic health care bill...

[bostonthreeparty]

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by HAM CITY

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

We will be so F'd if this passes, idk if some of you guys realize that "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes. The expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc. And if they tax the rich more and the poor less? Thats just 100% communist bull. The people who are getting payed that much worked for it, why does the money come out of their pocket to help the poor when they slacked their whole life. I'm not biased in anyway, i'm an 18 year old going off to college next year and my motivation to do well is to make money, i'll be damned if i work hard get a good job just to give all my money away. If im gonna do that why should i work hard?

Universal Health Care is a terrible idea.

The mindset of a privileged and sheltered individual. 

It's pretty sad too.

Jehlers, what if RIGHT NOW, you got into a life-threatening car accident? And you didn't have any way to pay for it?

RIGHT NOW, they wanted you to pay $7000 out of pocket before they perform surgery on you.

You can really sit here and say that's right/ethical? That selfish people that "work for things", can't shell out an extra couple dollars that they use to get extra whipped cream on their Starbucks Latte's to help someone's LIFE?

That's sad if you think that's OKAY, and I'm glad I don't think that way.

there has to be some way for that things are being paid for. 
Hey, I don't want to pay for groceries so lets have Government run Grocery shopping. 

people are going on the mind set of "Greedy Rich people will pay for something i should take care of because the government says so" 

but why take my word, I'm just a greedy, Rather wealthy, Angry white Guy who doesn't want to pay for other people cause he didn't work hard 

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

The majority of Americans watch Fox News also, so that explains why they're so misinformed.

Healthcare costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in theUnited States on health care surpassed $2.3 trillion in 2008, morethan three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight timesthe $253 billion spent in 1980. Stemming this growth has become a majorpolicy priority, as the government, employers, and consumersincreasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs. http://[1]
In2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident andaccounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); thisis among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health careexpenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slowerrate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth innational income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that healthcosts are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future.  Manyanalysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet forbroader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has madecost control a focus of health reform efforts under way.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358

 

[callhimar]

[h1]Without Reform, Family Health Care Spending To Skyrocket; 34% Increase By 2015, 79% By 2020[/h1] [h3]Study: Number of uninsured Americans could grow by 10 million in just five years[/h3]
Published: Mar 15, 2010  Princeton, N.J.

Without significant reform to the current health care system, thenumber of uninsured Americans could grow by 10 million people in justfive years, and spending on government health care programs for thepoor could more than double by 2020, according to a new report releasedtoday by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF).

The reportprojects that by 2015, there could be as many as 59.7 million peopleuninsured—and further estimates that the number could swell to 67.6million by 2020. An estimated 49.4 million individuals were withouthealth coverage in 2010.

Analysts at the Urban Institute usedtheir Health Insurance Policy Simulation Model to assess the changes incoverage patterns and health care costs that will occur nationally from2010 to 2020 in the event that major reforms are not enacted. The studyexamined three alternative scenarios:

1. Worst case—continuing high levels of unemployment; slow growth in incomes; high growth rates for health care costs;
2. Intermediate case—somewhat faster growth in incomes, but a lower growth rate for health care costs; and
3. Best case—full employment; faster income growth; even slower growth in health care costs.

Underall three economic scenarios, the analysis shows that the middle-classwould suffer most without reform. For employers who continued to offerhealth insurance benefits, an increasing amount of the costs wouldlikely be passed on to workers. At the same time, individuals andfamilies would face higher out-of-pocket costs for premiums and healthcare services.

“Families and individuals across this country arealready stretched beyond their means. They simply cannot afford to seetheir insurance costs rise by more than a third in just five shortyears,

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

The majority of Americans watch Fox News also, so that explains why they're so misinformed.

Healthcare costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in theUnited States on health care surpassed $2.3 trillion in 2008, morethan three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight timesthe $253 billion spent in 1980. Stemming this growth has become a majorpolicy priority, as the government, employers, and consumersincreasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs. http://[1]
In2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident andaccounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); thisis among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health careexpenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slowerrate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth innational income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that healthcosts are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future.  Manyanalysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet forbroader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has madecost control a focus of health reform efforts under way.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358



and what would you possibly suggest for news? 

 

[superantigen]

7:20 PM ET: Nate Silver, the master of predictions, http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/yn...ynews_ts1288/35547203/SIG=12khes2uh/*<a href=/www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/updated-whip-counts-now-show-democrats.html">http://www.fivethirtyeigh...-now-show-democrats.html">rounds up the latest vote counts from major media organizations and predicts that the bill will pass with 220 votes, 4 more than it needs.

...

 

[daytona 5000]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Well, I'm glad to see that this turned out to be a really productive thread with a lot of facts being presented. Oh wait...


I cannot stand the argument about government not being able to run anything effectively. It's simply ridiculous. Do you have clean water coming out of your shower and faucets at home? Who controls that and makes sure its clean? Oh, the government.

Did you go to school for free up until college? (I agree that city and state colleges should be free as well, in time.) Who pays for these things? The government.

Is our military not the most advanced and effective in the world? Who runs it?

Who gives out financial aid to low income families who want to send their children to college?

Federal funds pay for 80% of the basic science research in thiscountry, through laboratory facilities in universities and ingovernment agencies such as the National Institutes for Health. Forthis reason, the government deserves a great deal of credit for theimportant scientific and technological breakthroughs produced by theseefforts. In just one area – biomedical science – basic research hasprovided the foundation to develop new diagnostic technologies, such asnuclear magnetic resonance machines, and new treatments for cancer,diabetes, and many other diseases. It is revealing that nearly half ofthe most important medical treatments in the field ofcardiovascular-pulmonary medicine have their origins in basic researchattempting to unravel the mysteries of the lungs, heart, and muscles –work done by scientists not working in this specific disease area.

I could keep going but I don't want to waste anymore time on this ridiculous argument.

Also, there is a GREAT DEAL of heresy and propaganda being spewed in this thread quite frankly. I can't understand why people are fighting AGAINST a persons right to health care. It's absolutely mind boggling. Maybe if we didn't spend billions on defense and wars that never needed to be fought in the first place we'd actually be able to provide care to all Americans, and possibly free education through college. However our priorities are a bit out of line, but that isn't to say that the government won't be able to run health care, because again this is a MAJOR problem in America. It cannot be allowed to fail.

at that percentage

 

[jehlers02]

Originally Posted by AgentArenas

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

Originally Posted by DubA169

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

Originally Posted by HAM CITY

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

We will be so F'd if this passes, idk if some of you guys realize that "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes. The expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc. And if they tax the rich more and the poor less? Thats just 100% communist bull. The people who are getting payed that much worked for it, why does the money come out of their pocket to help the poor when they slacked their whole life. I'm not biased in anyway, i'm an 18 year old going off to college next year and my motivation to do well is to make money, i'll be damned if i work hard get a good job just to give all my money away. If im gonna do that why should i work hard?

Universal Health Care is a terrible idea.

The mindset of a privileged and sheltered individual. 

Please tell me how so, what makes me different from anyone else? Go in more detail with privileged and sheltered.

The fact that you can make a callous statement such as lower income people "slacked their whole life". You don't know their life or their situation.

plus most wealthy people are born into it. that's a myth that every rich person worked hard. wealth gets handed down from generation to generation. one example, a bunch of wealthy slave owners used their money to invest in other fields once slavery became illegal. did those people necessarily work hard? no. they had money to invest and they handed it down

what about someone who creates their own business and it becomes a fortune 500 company. okay yes, that man worked very hard. but theres a great chance that his grandson won't have a hard day of work for his entire life because he was born into the wealth. .

Looking at people's individual situations there is a very small percent of which someone has worked hard their whole life and is still poor.
America is a working country, you go to school, you do well, you get a job to pay for college like im doing right now, if you work hard in college and do your work you will not be living on the streets.

This doesnt pertain to only people who are loaded millionaires, this has to do with the middle class too.

If your living on the streets you messed up somehwere, either that or you didnt take the iniative to do anything at a young age.

Wrong. Your response itself shows how you think, and that says enough. Your mentality wont allow you to relate to the "slackers" you criticize. We've established that people born into wealth have it easier than everyone else, right? Theres many types of wealth. Wealth is defined as "an abundance or profusion of anything; plentiful amount". Material wealth isn't all that matters. It just happens to be the type of wealth thats most directly correlated to a comfortable, "successful" lifestyle within society. Look at it this way. You're born into a broken family, without enough money to live comfortably. Ok, thats one type of wealth thats missing, makes sense. Someone born into a bad area, without a strong family support system is "poor" in a totally different way. They dont have moral or mental wealth. You think of college as something that isnt an option right? Its just a rung up the ladder of so called success. That was a mindset instilled into you by either your parents or your environment. You were WEALTHY in that regard. You had a positive influence pushed upon you your entire childhood. Many people don't grow up in that sort of situation. People don't know better because they have no reason to.  Intellectual wealth can come from our parents, our school systems, our teachers. Mental wealth can come from the resources within our neighborhoods or our connections. Material wealth isn't the only thing that influences how we grow up.

Moral and mental wealth is a terrible excuse for not being somewhat successful when your older. By the time your 18 you should have had a reality check at one point in your life that school is important. I dont need my parents to tell me school is important, i know if i dont go to school, i wont have a job, i wont have money.

Where i live the Milwaukee Public school systems have a graduation rate of 50%
With those kids is there probably great parenting going on? No, but thats no reason to not do your work in school to go off to college. People choose what lifestyle they want, those kids are choosing not to work in school. Drugs and violence are a bigger priority, does it REALLY take parenting to know thats gonna get you no where? Its common sense your not gonna live a successful life doing that instead of staying in school.

Again, its America, if you go to school and do well in school the majority will not be poor.

It's pretty sad too.

Jehlers, what if RIGHT NOW, you got into a life-threatening car accident? And you didn't have any way to pay for it?

RIGHT NOW, they wanted you to pay $7000 out of pocket before they perform surgery on you.

You can really sit here and say that's right/ethical? That selfish people that "work for things", can't shell out an extra couple dollars that they use to get extra whipped cream on their Starbucks Latte's to help someone's LIFE?

That's sad if you think that's OKAY, and I'm glad I don't think that way.
Or i could wait in line for that surgery for who knows how long if we had universal health care.
There isn't anything wrong with generosity but there is when you're lazy and fall back and let the government pay for everything, finding loop holes in the system to get free money instead of doing something about it.

You do nothing, i do everything, i give you money, you still do nothing. Thats not right.

Wait until dude grows past his teenage years and life rams it from behind hard

just because you "think" your working hard and all that does not mean it comes simple to the rest of America. Are you paying for college out of your OWN pocket? Living expenses and all that?

Jehlers02 you are a lame
Life has already rammed me hard from behind. Other than FASFA, yea its coming out of my pocket. I cant remember the last time i had money to go buy something for myself. Its college, im broke.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

The majority of Americans watch Fox News also, so that explains why they're so misinformed.

Healthcare costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in theUnited States on health care surpassed $2.3 trillion in 2008, morethan three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight timesthe $253 billion spent in 1980. Stemming this growth has become a majorpolicy priority, as the government, employers, and consumersincreasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs. http://[1]
In2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident andaccounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); thisis among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health careexpenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slowerrate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth innational income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that healthcosts are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future.  Manyanalysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet forbroader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has madecost control a focus of health reform efforts under way.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358

and what would you possibly suggest for news? 

Read a paper. The New York Times preferably. BBC, The Guardian? Although 24 hour news networks are ridiculous. I always suggest reading a paper.

 

[jayamazin]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

The majority of Americans watch Fox News also, so that explains why they're so misinformed.

Health care costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in the United States on health care surpassed $2.3 trillion in 2008, more than three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight times the $253 billion spent in 1980. Stemming this growth has become a major policy priority, as the government, employers, and consumers increasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs. http://[1]
In 2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident and accounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); this is among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health care expenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slower rate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth in national income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that health costs are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future.  Many analysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet for broader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has made cost control a focus of health reform efforts under way.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358

and what would you possibly suggest for news? 

Read a paper. The New York Times preferably. BBC, The Guardian? Although 24 hour news networks are ridiculous. I always suggest reading a paper.




You can also think for yourself instead of having other people like Limbaugh or Hannity think for you and tell you what they believe and brainwashing you. You can do that for a start also.
  

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by JayAmazin

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

if the country and every one wanted this passed, it would of been done by now, instead, its being pushed off longer and longer.

and can some one explain to me how spending 940 billion dollars will REDUCE the National deficit by 1.3 trillion?

The majority of Americans watch Fox News also, so that explains why they're so misinformed.

Health care costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in the United States on health care surpassed $2.3 trillion in 2008, more than three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight times the $253 billion spent in 1980. Stemming this growth has become a major policy priority, as the government, employers, and consumers increasingly struggle to keep up with health care costs. http://[1]
In 2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident and accounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); this is among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health care expenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slower rate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth in national income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that health costs are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future.  Many analysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet for broader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has made cost control a focus of health reform efforts under way.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358

and what would you possibly suggest for news? 

Read a paper. The New York Times preferably. BBC, The Guardian? Although 24 hour news networks are ridiculous. I always suggest reading a paper.

You can also think for yourself instead of having other people like Limbaugh or Hannity think for you and tell you what they believe and brainwashing you. You can do that for a start also.
  

Because every person looks up to those people as Brainwashing ultimate leaders 

and would not religiously listening to Hannity, Limbaugh or Beck not make me "Brainwashed" 

 

[rexanglorum]

SuperAntigen wrote:

---

So umm...why are people against this Bill again--besides the banal retort, "it's going to take cost too much money/it's going to take money out of my pocket"?

I mean, this country has spent ***** on a fruitless campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan thus far, and this is what people have qualms with?

Putting all the BS politics aside, are people not aware of the overarching purpose of the bill when all is said and done? Isn't that what matters here--ensuring that the average American can receive some form of medical care if and when the need arises? Or is that too much selflessness to ask of the "diverse" constituents of this country?

My stance on issue--I'm sure you've inferred by now. What's yours?

...

Lemme guess, you are a student who either does not work or if you do you get all of your Federal income tax withholdings back every year. I hope that after you graduate that you will get a good job and eventually you will be in a high income tax bracket, not just so you can provide for your self but also so you better appreciate the value of earned money and will better appreciate the feeling of having it taken from you, more or less, at the point of a gun through taxation.

Yes, actual net tax payers, are concerned about prosaic things like costs, national insolvency and being denied healthcare after the age of 40 because a panal of bio "ethicists," who see most humans as little more than bacteria in a Petri dish," have deemed you too old to justify the use of "our nation's medical resources."




  

 

[shaunhillftw49]

WSJ>NY Times

Or i could wait in line for that surgery for who knows how long if we had universal health care.
Thereisn't anything wrong with generosity but there is when you're lazy andfall back and let the government pay for everything, finding loop holesin the system to get free money instead of doing something about it.
But if everyone worked hard, wasn't on welfare and had insurance (universal healthcare), wouldn't the lines be as long.

 

[a thrilla]

Health care is a Lame issue.

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

SuperAntigen wrote:

---

So umm...why are people against this Bill again--besides the banal retort, "it's going to take cost too much money/it's going to take money out of my pocket"?

I mean, this country has spent ***** on a fruitless campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan thus far, and this is what people have qualms with?

Putting all the BS politics aside, are people not aware of the overarching purpose of the bill when all is said and done? Isn't that what matters here--ensuring that the average American can receive some form of medical care if and when the need arises? Or is that too much selflessness to ask of the "diverse" constituents of this country?

My stance on issue--I'm sure you've inferred by now. What's yours?

...

Lemme guess, you are a student who either does not work or if you do you get all of your Federal income tax withholdings back every year. I hope that after you graduate that you will get a good job and eventually you will be in a high income tax bracket, not just so you can provide for your self but also so you better appreciate the value of earned money and will better appreciate the feeling of having it taken from you, more or less, at the point of a gun through taxation.

Yes, actual net tax payers, are concerned about prosaic things like costs, national insolvency and being denied healthcare after the age of 40 because a panal of bio "ethicists," who see most humans as little more than bacteria in a Petri dish," have deemed you too old to justify the use of "our nation's medical resources."




  

1. I am indeed an employed student (thank God--word to the economy).

2. Do I get the dollar amount of my Fed.income tax with-holdings back every year? Honestly, I wouldn't know because it's money I let my mom keep/hold-on-to/use due to the fact that, well, it's the least I can do to show my appreciation.

3. Thanks for the "well-wishes"...

Furthermore, your response is nothing new. It's the same old argument--pardon--it's the same old excuse and at it's heart is an unwillingness, possibly selfishness, to look beyond ones proximal comfort. Personally, I don't mind giving up a portion of my income--the little that I make--for the benefit of helping another. And quite honestly, I think it's sad that some "Americans" would choose to exercise the contrary.

Additionally, "death and taxes"--two things that are guaranteed, word to Joe Black. People have been taxed since way back when so don't even try to make this an issue about taxes. This has never been an issue of "tax" and you freaking know it. No offense, but you're clueless if you think otherwise.

The reason why there's antagonism towards this bill has everything to do with the "diverse" make-up of this country. That's what it boils down to. I'll leave you to figure it out.
 

...

 

[agentarenas]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

SuperAntigen wrote:

---

So umm...why are people against this Bill again--besides the banal retort, "it's going to take cost too much money/it's going to take money out of my pocket"?

I mean, this country has spent ***** on a fruitless campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan thus far, and this is what people have qualms with?

Putting all the BS politics aside, are people not aware of the overarching purpose of the bill when all is said and done? Isn't that what matters here--ensuring that the average American can receive some form of medical care if and when the need arises? Or is that too much selflessness to ask of the "diverse" constituents of this country?

My stance on issue--I'm sure you've inferred by now. What's yours?

...

Lemme guess, you are a student who either does not work or if you do you get all of your Federal income tax withholdings back every year. I hope that after you graduate that you will get a good job and eventually you will be in a high income tax bracket, not just so you can provide for your self but also so you better appreciate the value of earned money and will better appreciate the feeling of having it taken from you, more or less, at the point of a gun through taxation.

Yes, actual net tax payers, are concerned about prosaic things like costs, national insolvency and being denied healthcare after the age of 40 because a panal of bio "ethicists," who see most humans as little more than bacteria in a Petri dish," have deemed you too old to justify the use of "our nation's medical resources."




  

1. I am indeed an employed student (thank God--word to the economy).

2. Do I get the dollar amount of my Fed.income tax with-holdings back every year? Honestly, I wouldn't know because it's money I let my mom keep/hold-on-to/use due to the fact that, well, it's the least I can do to show my appreciation.

3. Thanks for the "well-wishes"...

Furthermore, your response is nothing new. It's the same old argument--pardon--it's the same old excuse and at it's heart is an unwillingness, possibly selfishness, to look beyond ones proximal comfort. Personally, I don't mind giving up a portion of my income--the little that I make--for the benefit of helping another. And quite honestly, I think it's sad that some "Americans" would choose to exercise the contrary.

Additionally, "death and taxes"--two things that are guaranteed, word to Joe Black. People have been taxed since way back when so don't even try to make this an issue about taxes. This has never been an issue of "tax" and you freaking know it.

The reason why there's antagonism towards this bill has everything to do with the "diverse" make-up of this country. That's what it boils down to. I'll leave you to figure it out.
 

...

To be honest, I think a large part of Rex's point is that even if every single person gave money to the poor, it should be something that is a conscious decision based on the individual, rather than being forced to do so by the government. To some people (Not speaking on Rex's behalf, but from what I've heard) the principle itself is what is really "wrong".

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by AgentArenas

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

SuperAntigen wrote:

---

So umm...why are people against this Bill again--besides the banal retort, "it's going to take cost too much money/it's going to take money out of my pocket"?

I mean, this country has spent ***** on a fruitless campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan thus far, and this is what people have qualms with?

Putting all the BS politics aside, are people not aware of the overarching purpose of the bill when all is said and done? Isn't that what matters here--ensuring that the average American can receive some form of medical care if and when the need arises? Or is that too much selflessness to ask of the "diverse" constituents of this country?

My stance on issue--I'm sure you've inferred by now. What's yours?

...

Lemme guess, you are a student who either does not work or if you do you get all of your Federal income tax withholdings back every year. I hope that after you graduate that you will get a good job and eventually you will be in a high income tax bracket, not just so you can provide for your self but also so you better appreciate the value of earned money and will better appreciate the feeling of having it taken from you, more or less, at the point of a gun through taxation.

Yes, actual net tax payers, are concerned about prosaic things like costs, national insolvency and being denied healthcare after the age of 40 because a panal of bio "ethicists," who see most humans as little more than bacteria in a Petri dish," have deemed you too old to justify the use of "our nation's medical resources."




  

1. I am indeed an employed student (thank God--word to the economy).

2. Do I get the dollar amount of my Fed.income tax with-holdings back every year? Honestly, I wouldn't know because it's money I let my mom keep/hold-on-to/use due to the fact that, well, it's the least I can do to show my appreciation.

3. Thanks for the "well-wishes"...

Furthermore, your response is nothing new. It's the same old argument--pardon--it's the same old excuse and at it's heart is an unwillingness, possibly selfishness, to look beyond ones proximal comfort. Personally, I don't mind giving up a portion of my income--the little that I make--for the benefit of helping another. And quite honestly, I think it's sad that some "Americans" would choose to exercise the contrary.

Additionally, "death and taxes"--two things that are guaranteed, word to Joe Black. People have been taxed since way back when so don't even try to make this an issue about taxes. This has never been an issue of "tax" and you freaking know it.

The reason why there's antagonism towards this bill has everything to do with the "diverse" make-up of this country. That's what it boils down to. I'll leave you to figure it out.
 

...

To be honest, I think a large part of Rex's point is that even if every single person gave money to the poor, it should be something that is a conscious decision based on the individual, rather than being forced to do so by the government. To some people (Not speaking on Rex's behalf, but from what I've heard) the principle itself is what is really "wrong".



If we're leaving it up to "conscious decision" and willingness on the part of the individual then NOTHING will get done. I mean seriously, have y'all forgotten that we reside in AMERICA. Have y'all forgotten about the history that is this country?

Nothing is politically right which is morally wrong--Abe Lincoln. The principle will never be "wrong" if it's a morally right principle. This reform is morally right--at very least.


...

 

[robsheedwallace]

All Im saying what happened to Freedom? I actually dont have health care at the moment cause I didnt care much about it. Call me crazy but the only thing about the bill I see is it forcing me to get and "pay"(get taxed) for something I didnt want cause if I did Id have health insurance right now.

 

[mo matik]

I'm really unschooled on American domestic policy and how the these votes and things work. Anyone who knows me on here will know I'm much more concerned about international affairs.

But I was hoping someone could shed some light on the process right now.

People are coming up from both sides, asking for what exactly? Why is it so important to state their opinion early if the vote is going to occur within a few minutes?

And then, they say their piece, and then the dude says "without objection." Without objection to what?

 

[utvol23]

Many people are really naive and want to stand in a circle and sing kum by ya and think everything will be great.

First we do NOT have the money for this. Medicare has already 38 TRILLION dollars in unfunded liability how much greater do you think that number will grow if we add another 30 million people to medicare not to mention all the people who will also be added once companies throw them off of their companies insurance and the companies chose instead to just pay the fees.

This legislation is not deficit neutral nor will it give deficit reduction. they didnt not include the doctor fix in that number and in addition the numbers are based on many future programs that either need to be cut or taxed. ie cadillac health plans. Also the first 6yrs of services is paid for by 10 yrs of taxes. What happens in the next 10 yrs?

Also i guarantee all those saying they dont mind the taxes arent the ones paying a great deal of taxes. When you are paying >40% of your income in taxes and they want to raise it even more come talk to me. The majority of these people are not wealthy they may not being doing poorly but a lot of physicians fall into this category. They have hundreds of thousands in student loan debt and now they not only are paying half their wages in taxes but have rising medical malpractice rates and are also facing drastic reimbursement cuts thus the reason so many physicians are considering looking elsewhere for work.

 

[letsgetit22]

Nancy Pelosi just said that the bill has over 200 republican amendments... can someone tell me why the republicans hate the bill so much?

 

[mo matik]

Why do they even bother with the vocal "I" and "Nay"?

This stuff seems so stupid sometimes.

 

[duba169]

it's called grandstanding

 

[chrisphreezy]

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by HAM CITY

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

We will be so F'd if this passes, idk if some of you guys realize that "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes. The expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc. And if they tax the rich more and the poor less? Thats just 100% communist bull. The people who are getting payed that much worked for it, why does the money come out of their pocket to help the poor when they slacked their whole life. I'm not biased in anyway, i'm an 18 year old going off to college next year and my motivation to do well is to make money, i'll be damned if i work hard get a good job just to give all my money away. If im gonna do that why should i work hard?

Universal Health Care is a terrible idea.

The mindset of a privileged and sheltered individual. 

It's pretty sad too.

Jehlers, what if RIGHT NOW, you got into a life-threatening car accident? And you didn't have any way to pay for it?

RIGHT NOW, they wanted you to pay $7000 out of pocket before they perform surgery on you.

You can really sit here and say that's right/ethical? That selfish people that "work for things", can't shell out an extra couple dollars that they use to get extra whipped cream on their Starbucks Latte's to help someone's LIFE?

That's sad if you think that's OKAY, and I'm glad I don't think that way.

there has to be some way for that things are being paid for. 
Hey, I don't want to pay for groceries so lets have Government run Grocery shopping. 

people are going on the mind set of "Greedy Rich people will pay for something i should take care of because the government says so" 

but why take my word, I'm just a greedy, Rather wealthy, Angry white Guy who doesn't want to pay for other people cause he didn't work hard 

just because a person might not be as wealthy as you does not mean that they are a slacker. maybe its just the hand that life dealt them. other factors come into play rather than just work ethic when talking about a persons money. if you were poor, i really doubt you would be saying the same thing...

 

[senatorjeffsmith]

This bill was hammered out by politicians who are in the pockets of the companies who will profit from this disaster.