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None of this is surprising
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
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Force and diplomacy must always go hand in hand.
Few people today know that Mandela was a paramilitary leader; he understood the limits of violence in securing the freedom of Black South Africans.
Hamas ****ed up. Yes, more Palestinians than Israelis have died and will continue to die, but yesterday showed that they're not the organization that will lead Palestine to freedom and international recognition as a state.
Israeli soldiers were literally revolting against the extremist aspirations of the BIbi government. Why give him the gift of external aggression instead of using his unpopularity to further discredit the colonization of Palestinian territories?
That was a stupid move. I don't even know if we could argue today that Hamas' main objective is Palestinian freedom.
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Hamas behaves as if they want the status quo to go on forever.
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Will this Israel-Palestine war be apocalyptic?
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Yes
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Could we ever argue that Palestinian freedom is the main objective of Hamas? They have historically used terrorist violence to try to derail PLO peace and other normalization negotiations in the 90s and early this century
Their objective is to goad an overreaction that will solidify and empower resistance to Israel. At best they massively increase recruitment and financial aid and at worst get other states involved in the hostilities
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Status quo or thoughts and prayers ain't helping either.
2023 was already the deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank. Palestinians, for 70+ years, have been treated worse than second class citizens in their own country while more Jewish people from all around the world come and claim it each year, to the deafening silence of the international community.
Israel's indeed a colonial regime that won't stop its atrocities on its own and maybe its people experiencing violence will show them how constantly voting for far right leaders is not a viable solution, even for them.
Haïti liberated themselves, Algeria too. I fear Palestine won't have a choice but doing the same, then again: “decolonization is always a violent phenomenon”.
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To the Palestinians, it's BEEN hell for a while now.
RustyShackleford
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I didn't offer thoughts and prayers. I don't say the status quo was working
And this attack by Hamas made the situation worse. It will lead to more innocent people dying. Especially Palestinians
No one in here supports that status quo. People want things to change
**** like what Hamas did is gonna make it less likely
I know all this, I think all this is bad
It still doesn't justify what Hamas did.
Not even close
Gunning down innocent people.
If what Israelis have been doing is wrong, which I think has been, then logically I would have an issue with what Hamas did.
They killed not only Jews and Israelis, but Americans, Thais, and others. People that have nothing to do with the conflict
Dude, with all due respect. This is ridiculous
First, Hamas didn't go around asking people who they voted for. They killed people indiscriminately. They fired missiles without care of who they may kill.
They didn't spare Jews and Israelis who are left-wing and pro-peace. They didn't check to make sure foreigners were not killed. They just mowed people down.
Innocent people that don't support, or have nothing to do with this conflict got murdered by Hamas, or are being held captive by them.
Furthermore, you are not gonna scare people into voting for a certain way because of terrorism. If anything, you will just increase support for the extremists on the other side.
I think you are deluding yourself into thinking terrorist attacks will lead to liberation for the Palestinian people:
-First, for every success story, there are dozens of failures.
-The Israeli military is way more equipped than Hamas.
-This attack just rallied most of the Western world behind a far-right government that they would have previously liked to see out of power.
-Hamas seems to have zero interest in seeing a free and functioning Palestinian state. Going by their actions, seems like they want the status quo to continue, just with more Jews dying in the process. They have no plan to gain freedom, ensure lasting peace for the Palestinian people, or run a functioning state.
Seems like the dopamine hit of seeing the Isarael government take an L is not making people see this clearly
The people of Palestine deserve to be free of the constant oppression, injustice, and terror the Israeli government forces upon them. They also deserve to be free from the counter-productive nonsense Hamas constantly does
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This fat bleep has never stepped inside a grocery's store in his life for the sole purpose of buying food. Who's he kidding!
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I disagree, a growing amount of non racist and far right Israelis too:
The horror of killings of children and/or
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They've been dying already and I think some are prepared to continue doing so for the sake of their freedom and that of their loved ones.
RustyShackleford
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Non-racists and pro-peace Israelis were already against Bibi.
There were protests going on against this anti-democracy maneuvering too.
The people you think are being persuaded were already on the right side of this.
The people on the margin, who probably determine if Netanyahu can form a coalition government, are the ones you need to worry about. And Hamas could be driving those people toward Bibi even more.
Also, Netanyahu is getting blame not just for provoking Hamas, but for not having the military in place to stop the attack in the first place.
This is not a revolution famb
This is Hamas, probably with the help of outside forces, trying to sabotage the deals Israeli has been working out with form adversaries to normalize relations
It is Hamas sparking more conflict to keep things the same.
RustyShackleford
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This is not going to lead to freedom. It is just gonna lead to more deaths, especially Palestinians, and nothing changing fundamentally.
Hamas are not freedom fighters.
Netanyahu wants to keep the status quo going, and Hamas is one of his biggest allies in making sure that happens
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They need more people then.
This is and we can agree to disagree.
Nat Turner was labeled a terrorist. John Brown and Harriet Tubman too. List goes on.
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The foundation of Netanyahu's career is security or rather the promise of security. That has been pulled away after this attack. I don't see how he survives once this situation is behind the country
RustyShackleford
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Terrorist attacks by Hamas will probably weaken progressive Israeli efforts to convince people that the status quo is horrible
People are not rational when they are scared
Time will decide.
You can come in here and tell me "I told you so" if Hamas wins freedom for Gaza
And you should plan too
Because after Israel is done murdering hundreds, and nothing is fundamentally different in a few months.
I'll be pointing out how Hamas didn't accomplish **** besides killing and getting more people killed.
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RustyShackleford
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He might have to pay a price because of the security failure
That is why people are mad at him
I don't think the voters on the margin that will decide if the far right has power in the area are gonna be like "Bibi is to blame because he provoked Hamas"
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I won't, it really ain't a laughing matter, a **** measuring contest or a contrarian posture to me. I'll be glad when they're finally free but I know it will come at a cost.
RustyShackleford
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Are you implying it is for me?
I will be glad when the Palestinian people have peace, freedom from oppression, and their own state.
That is why I think what is doing is bad
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