***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[AZwildcats]

OK. In the full context, he was not encouraging illegals to vote (directly). I concede that point.

However, we still had a sitting president encouraging people to vote in the interest of illegal immigrantion. That's still outrageous.

At least you conceded something, it's a start

 

[everysingletime]

So Israel stays encroaching on Palestine territory.

Most of the world condemns it.

Israeli lobby is strong in Washington.

Obama doesn't like Israel but he does his best not to rustle any jimmies in Washington.

Trump wants to lay in bed with Israel.

That's what I got from your post.

I don't really know what you mean by two state solution and Obama's specific history with Israel. But thanks man for the detailed post. I didn't think I was going to get cliffnotes so quickly.

It sounds to me like Trump has a pattern here, with who he wants to ally with (Russia, Israel) Both countries want to expand their territory.

 

[gry60]

I'm weak when it comes to foreign policy. Anyone want to explain to me Israel and Palestine from the beginning and Obama and Trump's positions on this

I could Google. But nt has always been good at cliffnotes

I'll try my best to give you an overview with some keywords in parentheses.
The colonial period sees major Euro players take control of foreign lands. This struggle results in WWI, where the Ottoman empire falls.

The UK, originally in talks with Arab tribes to grant them independence if they helped beat the Ottomans (see Lawrence of Arabia), decides instead to divide their territorial gains in the middle east according to theirs and France's interests (which is access to oil) (see the Sykes Picot deal). Arabs get sort of shafted (see creation of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the UAE).

WWII happens and the persecution of Jews in Europe culminates with the holocaust.

At the end of WWII, the European Jews are offered to resettle in this part of the Middle East that is controlled by the UK (Palestine). Israel is created but the locals and their Arab neighbors don't agree with the decision. Multiple wars result from the disagreement and at the end of each of them, Israel expands beyond their original borders. Negotiations happen, fail, conflicts break out, and Israel expands some more.

The conflict also has a religious element to it, which revolves around the central position that Jerusalem occupies in all three abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Like Rolaholic said, it's complicated.

 

[heatpinoyboy]

Saw some Duterte stuff swirling around a few pages ago. For people who want a more in-depth look at his consistent and horrific violations of human rights, please go see:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-duterte-philippines-drugs-killings.html?_r=0

 

[rolaholic]

So Israel stays encroaching on Palestine territory.

Most of the world condemns it.

Israeli lobby is strong in Washington.

Obama doesn't like Israel but he does his best not to rustle any jimmies in Washington.

Trump wants to lay in bed with Israel.

That's what I got from your post.

I don't really know what you mean by two state solution and Obama's specific history with Israel. But thanks man for the detailed post.

It sounds to me like Trump has a pattern here, with who he wants to ally with (Russia, Israel) Both countries want to expand their territory.

For the most part yep,I wouldn't say Obama doesn't like Israel the country so much as he doesn't get along with their leader and his purposely inflammatory/provocative policies. They hate each other apparently

A 2 state solution would be Israel returning the areas of Palestine they're currently occupying such as Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine and Palestine would acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state. This is most peoples ideal solution since there would be 2 independent states instead of having one occupying the other indefinitely which has always been the recipe for more and more violence and unrest

 

[frink85]

TBH I believe/get the feeling that most people regardless of party disagree with Israel, especially the Zionist movement, but Israel/Jewish people have too much political clout in the US and the UN.

 

[AZwildcats]

TBH I believe/get the feeling that most people regardless of party disagree with Israel, especially the Zionist movement, but Israel/Jewish people have too much political clout in the US and the UN.

Simple as that

 

[everysingletime]

Oh thanks man. So WW2 created Israel and it's kept on growing since. Very interesting.

 

[sfc415]

TBH I believe/get the feeling that most people regardless of party disagree with Israel, especially the Zionist movement, but Israel/Jewish people have too much political clout in the US and the UN.

If you dare to speak out against Israel, you get labeled as an anti-Semite and a terrorist sympathizer (despite the fact that there are actually many Jews that don't support Israel)

 

[rolaholic]

TBH I believe/get the feeling that most people regardless of party disagree with Israel, especially the Zionist movement, but Israel/Jewish people have too much political clout in the US and the UN.

If you dare to speak out against Israel, you get labeled as an anti-Semite or terrorist sympathizer

This is why there's nothing but biased and politicized debates on the issue ,nothing honest or genuine ever leading to any productive solutions.

What I find most ironic about it all is that a good amount of Israeli's themselves don't agree with the actions of their government,are they anti-Semites too? . Jews aren't a monolith and a lot of them actually care about what happens to their Palestinian neighbours,we only get one-sided coverage of it though

In the current climate,you say anything critical and you're labelled a Hamas supporter/Jew hater instantly without 2nd thought

 

[everysingletime]

So Israel stays encroaching on Palestine territory.

Most of the world condemns it.

Israeli lobby is strong in Washington.

Obama doesn't like Israel but he does his best not to rustle any jimmies in Washington.

Trump wants to lay in bed with Israel.

That's what I got from your post.

I don't really know what you mean by two state solution and Obama's specific history with Israel. But thanks man for the detailed post.

It sounds to me like Trump has a pattern here, with who he wants to ally with (Russia, Israel) Both countries want to expand their territory.

For the most part yep,I wouldn't say Obama doesn't like Israel the country so much as he doesn't get along with their leader and his purposely inflammatory/provocative policies. They hate each other apparently

A 2 state solution would be Israel returning the areas of Palestine they're currently occupying such as Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine and Palestine would acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state. This is most peoples ideal solution since there would be 2 independent states instead of having one occupying the other indefinitely which has always been the recipe for more and more violence and unrest

I would support the two state solution then. And Trump wants to veto this? Smh. Thanks Rolaholic

Also, Thanks for your explanation, Gry60

 

[frink85]

Saw some Duterte stuff swirling around a few pages ago. For people who want a more in-depth look at his consistent and horrific violations of human rights, please go see:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-duterte-philippines-drugs-killings.html?_r=0

Saw those photos before, great stuff. Of course here it's just the Western media trying to exert influence and destroy duterte.


http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/12/22/16/drug-war-victim-stray-bullet-kills-girl-while-in-church

"Mama...mama ko."
These were the last few words uttered by 12 year-old Kristine Joy Sailog after a stray bullet pierced her heart Wednesday night before attending the Simbang Gabi (dawn mass) with her mother and siblings in Biñan, Laguna.
Kristine Joy, youngest among three siblings, was waiting at the church's gate when four unidentified gunmen shot barangay tanod Allan Fernandez. Two bullets hit Kristine Joy and a woman identified as Rowena Flores.

This shhhh happening every day

 

[sfc415]

There's a huge difference between how Filipinos I know in the Philippines and how my American born Filipino friends view Duterte. My Filipino American friends are scared of going back to the PI for vacation while my Filipino friends are insisting that I come visit since the country is apparently being cleaned up

 

[rolaholic]

When are his death squads gonna turn on his own pill popping self?

That's some disheartening stuff hearing all the "collateral damage" his drug war has brought along and for what? To maintain a cavalier/cowboy, "tough guy" image? Jesus

Killing dealers is backwards in itself already but seeking out and killing users is some next level stuff

 

[Belgium]

There's a huge difference between how Filipinos I know in the Philippines and how my American born Filipino friends view Duterte. My Filipino American friends are scared of going back to the PI for vacation while my Filipino friends are insisting that I come visit since the country is apparently being cleaned up

One of my childhood friends was adopted from the Philippines and has often visited his biological family back there. He's now scared as hell to set foot there again while his biological family is trying to assure him that it'll be safe. Pretty crazy contrast.

 

[everysingletime]

Double

 

[sfc415]

The worst part is that many of the users that are getting killed turned themselves in while thinking they were going to receive treatment...

 

[gry60]

The worst part is that the users that are getting killed turned themselves in while thinking they were going to receive treatment...

Is this not grounds for crimes against humanity?

 

[rolaholic]

The worst part is that the users that are getting killed turned themselves in while thinking they were going to receive treatment...

Yea that's some purposely cruel and unusual **** . As dude mentioned before,he sounds like a goddamn psychopath.

Everything I've heard out of his mouth leads me to the same conclusion

 

[everysingletime]

My Filipino American friends were actually pretty ignorant of what's going on there until I explained it to them. They seem pretty unconcerned after it was explained to them. They're still going to the Philippines on vacation with no damns given.

My dude Dutuerte sounds unhinged but it seems he only targets drug dealers so if you're vacationing there you should be good as long as you're not doing drugs lol

 

[rolaholic]

The worst part is that the users that are getting killed turned themselves in while thinking they were going to receive treatment...

Is this not grounds for crimes against humanity?

100%.

They're huge human rights violations and he'd probably get recommended to the ICC at the Hague if he was a leader of a small African state...

 

[Belgium]

Is this not grounds for crimes against humanity?

It is. Duterte is breaking all sorts of international laws and human rights.

But unless he is imprisoned in the Philippines and extradited to an international criminal court such as in The Hague I don't think they can do anything about it.

And the way things are looking now, it doesn't look like the Philippines are impeaching and imprisoning him any time soon.

 

[sfc415]

My Filipino American friends were actually pretty ignorant of what's going on there until I explained it to them. They seem pretty unconcerned after it was explained to them. They're still going to the Philippines on vacation with no damns given.

My dude Dutuerte sounds unhinged but it seems he only targets drug dealers so if you're vacationing there you should be good as long as you're not doing drugs lol

My Filipino American friends are more worried about what Duterte thinks of American born Filipinos and how they'd be treated if they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Apparently he considers them race traitors , but now he's cool with the US again after Trump got elected, so who knows?

 

[d nice]

Jewish brehs got the game on lock when it come to Isreal. The bill that was passed a few weeks ago is proof of that.
[h1]Senate passes college anti-Semitism bill[/h1]
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/308493-senate-passes-college-anti-semitism-bill

The Senate has cleared a bill aimed at bolstering the Department of Education's ability to investigate anti-Semitic attacks on college campuses.

The proposal, known as the Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, passed the upper chamber by unanimous consent two days after it was introduced. It codifies what qualifies as anti-Semitism, using a definition adopted by the State Department. 

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“This legislation will help the Department of Education investigate incidents of discrimination motivated by anti-Semitism in our schools," Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) said in a statement. 

The legislation is backed by Casey, as well as Sens. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Michael Bennet (D-Colo.). It still needs to be passed by the House before it can be sent to President Obama's desk.

According to the legislation, when the Department of Education is trying to determine if a crime violates the Civil Rights Act it should "take into consideration the definition of anti-Semitism as part of the Department's assessment."

Scott called the legislation an "important clarification" to help the Department of Education. 

"[It] will provide the necessary direction to assist officials and administrators to understand when anti-Semitic activities are occurring, by clarifying exactly what anti-Semitic is," the South Carolina senator added.

The State Department defines anti-Semitism as a "certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, towards Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

The bill has gotten some pushback  over concerns that it's unconstitutional, but both Casey and Scott stressed that the legislation isn't meant to infringe upon First Amendment rights.  

According to the 2015 FBI crimes report, nearly 53 percent of religiously motivated hate crimes were due to anti-Jewish beliefs.

Anyways, my Filipino homies got no idea whats going on back in the Philippines. And they could care less.

 

[frink85]

The worst part is that the users that are getting killed turned themselves in while thinking they were going to receive treatment...

Is this not grounds for crimes against humanity?

He doesn't care. He craps all over the UN or any human rights org that tries to check him. After obama spoke on it he said "to hell with the US" and dared him to pull financial support.

There's a huge difference between how Filipinos I know in the Philippines and how my American born Filipino friends view Duterte. My Filipino American friends are scared of going back to the PI for vacation while my Filipino friends are insisting that I come visit since the country is apparently being cleaned up

I read a good article last week that points out that the middle class/upper class areas, the people there say they feel safer, but in the poor areas and the 'hoods that's where the craziness goes down. Targeting the people who need the most help