***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

This man has had a miraculous goddamn change of heart recently

Cuomo really a piece of goddamn work

This is why primary challenges matter, because even if they are not successful, they let the incumbent know that their *** is on notice.

Can't wait to see Cuomo on the Breakfast Club acting like he been down.

 

[rexanglorum]

So Trump in his favor has a propaganda campaign from a foreign government, a cable TV network that peddles lies nearly around the lock in support of Trump, voter suppression taregting college students and black people, disenfranchisement campaigns against black people, and a electoral system that skews the resualts away from the will of the people.

But let some clowns tell it Trump will get reelected because he is for the working man and people are tired of "identity politics".

Absolutely, Trump is not a populist and his election win was not a working class uprising. Donald Trump is the masthead of a vast and largely successful Republican party effort to impose minority rule on the United States.

Conservatives lie about this reality but so do many wealthy liberals whose material interests are aligned with conservative minority rule and the lower tax rates, austerity and deregulation that comes with it. The majority of Americans know that our economic system is rigged and the majority want a more humane and democratic economy. Rich liberals do not want free college, free healthcare and a Federal Jobs guarantee so they conflate these organic and majoritarian demands with Trump's bigotry and label all of it "populism."

It is hard to get the word out that Trump is a member of the elite who supports and is supported by other elite institutions. It is hard to articulate that to the mass of people when all conservatives and most liberals, with a platform, keep claiming that Trump, the billionaire, popular vote loser, is a "populist."

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Cuomo really a piece of goddamn work

This is why primary challenges matter, because even if they are not successful, they let the incumbent know that their *** is on notice.

Can't wait to see Cuomo on the Breakfast Club acting like he been down.

I was sure he was bull****ting during primaries. Thanks, Miranda.

Good to see that he’s saying he’ll follow through. We’ll see.

Options are limited with how horrible our infrastructure has become. Either this happens, or things get 10x worse.

 

[deleted]

I stated that the fry cook thing was a joke, when it happened. But, I actually was a fry cook at Wendys--years ago. And became a lawyer. But that does not matter.

No different than the fact that many in here are in character, a lot. I thought it was an obvious joke when I wrote it. I had no idea that it would turn into a consistent Ad hominem attack on conversations that have nothing to do with it.

I think it comes from an inability of many on here to discuss things on the merits. So, instead, it devolves into the he's not black, fry lawyer, coal gang, Dapper Don, etc rhetoric.

But I'm the insincere ignorant one? Sure Rusty

...

How is Wendy's a joke? I'm lost

Strange...

 

[boris]

I take no issue with the sharing of opinions. Is it your opinion that the posters are saying that Roy Moore is a pedophile in their opinion? Because I did not take that as an opinion and more as a factual account.

Again, opinions are welcome. I don't block them.

Just to be clear, no one said that it's despicable to support due process, correct? I ask because you regularly mention how important reading comprehension is.

 

[dwalk31]

Just to be clear, no one said that it's despicable to support due process, correct? I ask because you regularly mention how important reading comprehension is.

Someone said that me defending a pedophile was one of the most despicable things they've seen on Niketalk. I clarified by stating that I was defending due process. If they don't find my defense of due process despicable that is fine. If they do, it is my opinion that it does not make sense.

When pushed on why/how they know whether Roy Moore is a pedophile, the people stopped posting. So I have no idea what they feel is despicable.

It appears that they misunderstood what I was defending, but I have no way of knowing.

Reading comprehension is important.

 

[dwalk31]

...



Strange...

Context, my dear Watson.

 

[elpablo21]

helped with making that bed famb, lie in it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[HIM]

...



Strange...

There’s another guy who lies and, when caught, claims they were jokes or changes his story altogether. Hmmm

 

[RustyShackleford]

Absolutely, Trump is not a populist and his election win was not a working class uprising. Donald Trump is the masthead of a vast and largely successful Republican party effort to impose minority rule on the United States.

Conservatives lie about this reality but so do many wealthy liberals whose material interests are aligned with conservative minority rule and the lower tax rates, austerity and deregulation that comes with it. The majority of Americans know that our economic system is rigged and the majority want a more humane and democratic economy. Rich liberals do not want free college, free healthcare and a Federal Jobs guarantee so they conflate these organic and majoritarian demands with Trump's bigotry and label all of it "populism."

It is hard to get the word out that Trump is a member of the elite who supports and is supported by other elite institutions. It is hard to articulate that to the mass of people when all conservatives and most liberals, with a platform, keep claiming that Trump, the billionaire, popular vote loser, is a "populist."

You are correct but I feel you are letting leftist off the hook. True, rich liberals are complicit in the construction of this false imagine of Trump. However, it was many leftist right after the election that pushed the idea that it was "identity politics" that lost Clinton the election.

Trump conflates some of the worst crony capitalism with white supremacy. Rich liberals routinely get only half the picture. Call out the racism while down playing the amount of destruction the economic policy causes. When some leftist chose to indulge the right with the identity policies talk, they rightfully call out the economic carnage but tacitly ignored the role white supremacy paid, so they made themselves just as complicit in furthering this false imagine about Trump as any else on the left.

Now we reach a place either to judge people on the left as either misguided or disingenuous. So when leftist tell me that liberals are disingenuous( which some are). Then how should we look at leftist, especially white ones?

Maybe every one on the left should think twice before agreeing with conservatives.

 

[boris]

Someone said that me defending a pedophile was one of the most despicable things they've seen on Niketalk. I clarified by stating that I was defending due process. If they don't find my defense of due process despicable that is fine. If they do, it is my opinion that it does not make sense.

When pushed on why/how they know whether Roy Moore is a pedophile, the people stopped posting. So I have no idea what they feel is despicable.

It appears that they misunderstood what I was defending, but I have no way of knowing.

Reading comprehension is important.

I asked you a simple yes or no question. I'm very aware of what went down. Can you please answer the question?

Just to be clear, no one said that it's despicable to support due process, correct? I ask because you regularly mention how important reading comprehension is.

If someone said that it is despicable to support due process, then I ask that you link me to the post.

 

[dwalk31]

I asked you a simple yes or no question. I'm very aware of what went down. Can you please answer the question?

If someone said that it is despicable to support due process, then I ask that you link me to the post.

Your question is not simple in my opinion. You are asking me about my response to a characterization that someone made of my posts.

But to give you a direct answer: incorrect.

I do not have a link to the post.

 

[deleted]

There’s another guy who lies and, when caught, claims they were jokes or changes his story altogether. Hmmm

When he was pretending to currently be a Wendy's employee to gain leverage in a wage discussion, a detail that he likes to omit, he let us know that it wasn't a joke

Now he wants to say it was a joke all along because he realizes that everyone sees him as a liar

 

[Belgium]

Looking over these indictments of the 2 Flynn associates, he sure looks like he got a fantastic deal from Mueller. Based on the level of detail in the indictments, Flynn was singing like a nightingale.
Count 2 "Acting in the US as an agent of a foreign government" is the same statute Maria Butina pleaded guilty to. 18 US Code § 951

May this serve as the latest example of why you should not discuss your criminal conspiracies via email. Ever.
"Is you taking notes on a criminal ****ing conspiracy?" doesn't even begin to cover the extent of the self-incrimination here.

Person A refers to Mike Flynn. Company A is Flynn Intel Group.
https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2018/12/17/USvKian_Alptekin.pdf

Rafiekian, co-founder of Flynn Intel Group, conducted an unlawful influence campaign in an attempt to secure the extradition of Fethullah Gülen.
The Turkish government directed this effort through Kamil Ekim Alptekin and that involvement was then concealed by using Alptekin's company to serve as Flynn Intel Group's client.
Flynn Intel Group was also to receive its fee from Alptekin's company. The Turkish government approved a budget for this operation and received regular updates on Flynn Intel Group's progress.

Not that the clear involvement of Flynn Intel Group in this scheme isn't enough to point to Flynn's role but here he is mentioned specifically discussing the covert influence campaign.

2 days later, Alptekin met with a Turkish minister who apparently showed interest in exploring this "Truth campaign" as they call it. The Minister asked for details on an indicative budget and what kind of output Flynn Intel Group could produce on the short and mid-term.

As all great minds do, the individuals proceeded to discuss their criminal activities via email. What could possibly go wrong?
"At this time, this conversation shall remain limited to you, Michael Flynn and myself."

A couple days later the individuals continued their email discussions about the influence campaign.
"You, Flynn and I are the only cleared entities on this at this time"
Around August 4, Flynn emailed Rafiekian and Alptekin regarding the "Truth campaign" and responded to Alptekin about some sort of question about the US Secretary of State's staff.
"I'll get with Refiekian today on your question regarding John Kerry's staff."

Rafiekian then sent an email stressing to Alptekin and Flynn the need to begin working on the Truth Campaign project.

Several days later, Alptekin emailed the two again and discussed his meetings with several Turkish Ministers. He also inquired once more about John Kerry, asking "do we know anyone on his team?"
Around August 10, Alptekin emailed Rafiekian and Flynn to tell them that has the "green light to discuss confidentiality, budget and the scope of the contract" after meeting with two unidentified Turkish Ministers.

The next day, Rafiekian emailed back that he and Flynn had discussed "campaign design" and "resource allocation" and reassured Alptekin that he "did not touch the advisory support we discussed at 20%."
On that same day, Alptekin changed the name of the project from "Truth Campaign" to "Project Confidence."
Sidenote, who comes up with these project names?

Alptekin also changed the source of the funding to a company he owned and controlled in the Netherlands.
"Company B" then became the client of Flynn Intel Group to disguise the Turkish government funding.

The email detailing the "new" project was formatted in the same 9-step plan (see 2 images above) as the original Truth Campaign project.

On August 25th, Rafiekian emailed Alptekin, copying Flynn according to the document, and thanked him for his decision to engage Flynn Intel Group on Operation Confidence.
He also noted that Alptekin would receive 20% of the money Flynn Intel Group received for the project.

Despite communicating the criminal conspiracy in detail via email, Rafiekian added that he would sent Alptekin a contract but noted "it will not contain operational details for obvious reasons."

Unsatisfied with their level of self-incriminating up to this point, around August 26 Alptekin told Rafiekian via Skype that "we are confirmed to go."
He also told Rafiekian "I think I'm meeting Turkish Minister 1's boss, not direct boss but you know who."

Alptekin also told Rafiekian on Skype that "we are scheduling a meet with Flynn and Turkish Minister 1 and perhaps even Senior Turkish Leader 1 in third week of NY"

But the self-incrimination was not yet finished.
Rafiekian sent Alptekin an email enclosing a contract between Alptekin's company in the Netherlands (the front for the Turkish government) and Flynn Intel Group.
In this email, Rafiekian further linked Project Confidence to the initial Truth Campaign project by noting "we've been at work on this engagement since July 31st. However, we decided to set the start date as August 15, 2016"
That was when the project's name was changed and Alptekin's company in the Netherlands was enlisted as a substitute for the Turkish government.

Flynn Intel Group was set to receive $600k in 3 installments of $200k. The contract also noted that Company B (the Turkish government) expected Flynn Intel Group to "deliver findings and results incloding but not limited to making criminal referrals" against Fethullah Gülen, the Turkish cleric.
The contract directly links Company B, which has previously been established as a substitute for the Turkish government in their previous email communications, to Flynn Intel Group.

Around September 5, Rafiekian sent Flynn a draft playbook for the project. It referred to Fethullah Gülen as "Person X" and referred to Turkey as "Country X."
It also noted that the public registration would claim that a Dutch entity was the client. As they laid out in full detail in previous emails, that "Dutch entity" was owned and controlled by Alptekin and set was used as a substitute for the Turkish government, which funded the project.

The next day, Rafiekian emailed Flynn and said "Client (Turkish government) is seeking high level meeting in NYC on September 19 or 20."
3 days later he emailed Flynn again and said that "the meeting is with high level audience (Cabinet+) related to CONFIDENCE"

Around that same day, Alptekin wired $200k to Flynn Intel Group. Rafiekian then emailed a Flynn Intel Group employee and said that the company needed to wire $40k back to Alptekin.
He claimed that Alptekin was Flynn Intel Group's "outside advisor on the Confidence Project."

On or about the same day, he then emailed Flynn a draft agreement between Flynn Intel Group and Alptekin that claimed Alptekin was an outside adivser.
Rafiekian added that "we need this to create an audit trail on properly documenting the relationship."

On or about September 18 in preparation of the high level meeting with Turkish officials, Rafiekian sent Alptekin a document titled "background and talking points", which contained about 20 talking points all about Fethullah Gülen. These talking points contained the exact same "apple tree" comparison between Khomeini and Gülen that Rafiekian had previously emailed to Alptekin as part of the initial Truth Campaign project, which was later renamed to Confidence Project as part of disguising the Turkish government funding.

On or about the evening of September 19, Rafiekian, Alptekin and other members of the project met with Turkish Minister 1 and 2.
The conversation centered around Gülen and the Turkish government's efforts to convince the US to extradite him.

2 days later, Rafiekian emailed Flynn that he met with Alptekin that day and that "the feedback from the late evening meeting was positive."

The indictment states that on or about September and October 2016, Rafiekian and others involved in the project met with and lobbied a member of Congress, a congressional staffer and a state government official in an effort to depict Gülen as a threat who should be extradited. The efforts also included attempts to persuade them on holding congressional hearings on Gülen.

On October 7, Rafiekian sent Alptekin the Flynn Intel Group company's invoice for $200k.
4 days later, Rafiekian emailed an employee and instructed him to send a wire transfer to Company B as soon as Alptekin sends an invoice for his "consulting" on the Confidence Project, which was the 20% cut he was supposed to receive as part of the contract.
Alptekin then caused $185k to be wired from a Turkish bank account in his name to Flynn Intel Group. On October 14 he then sent a $40k invoice to Flynn Intel Group.
Rafiekian then caused $40k to be wired to a Dutch bank account in Company B's name. For reference again, Company B is owned and controlled by Alptekin and functioned as a substitute for the Turkish government who was funding the project.

On or around November 10, Rafiekian sent Alptekin an invoice for the final $200k installment.
4 days later, Alptekin caused $145k to be wired to Flynn Intel Group from a Turkish bank account in his name.



On an approximately weekly basis, Rafiekian, Flynn and other Flynn Intel Group team members (presumably Flynn's son, who was reported to be in some legal jeopardy as well) held telephone conference calls with Alptekin on the project.
Alptekin then relayed those conversations to Turkish government officials and informed Rafiekian and Flynn on whether the Turkish officials were satisfied.

Around October 22, Flynn sent a text message to the project team saying that he "walked Alptekin through the social media analysis, which he found very interesting and worth talking to Turkish Minister 1 about as well as all the other talking points."

On or aroud November 2, Alptekin complained that Flynn Intel Group had not published enough negative information about Gülen.
He asked for a "smoking gun" and amongst other things wanted negative media coverage of Gülen, private investigate work targeting Gülen's supporters, congressional hearings, ...

Around that same day, Rafiekian emailed Alptekin a draft op-ed calling for Gülen's extradition.
The next day he wrote to Flynn and said "I asked the editor to review and edit my 1000 word draft to make sure it is tight before I send it out to you. The plan is to go out with the piece of Monday."

The next day, Rafiekian emailed Alptekin about the op-ed and said "I just left Flynn. The arrow has left the bow! . . . This is a very high profile exposure one day before the election."
An attached draft of the op-ed argued that the US should not provide "safe haven" to Gülen.
On or about November 5, Alptekin emailed Rafiekian and said "Flynn is right on target."

The op-ed was published in The Hill and listed Flynn as the author.

After Flynn published the op-ed, the DOJ sent a letter to Flynn requesting additional information to determine if Flynn, his company and/or others had an obligation to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
From approximately January 2017 to March 2017, outside attorneys for Flynn Intel Group sought information to determine if the company had to register under the FARA.
The indictments state that during this time, Rafiekian and Alptekin knowingly and deliberately provided a variety of false information to those outside attorneys in an effort to conceal the involvement and funding from the Turkish government in the project.
Those outside attorneys then relayed those false statements to the DOJ. Rafiekian reviewed the filings before they were submitted and did not suggest any of the multitude of false statements be changed.


Conclusion: If you're engaging in a criminal conspiracy, it may be a good idea to refrain from discussing virtually all of it with multiple co-conspirators via email.

 

[chao7]

When he was pretending to currently be a Wendy's employee to gain leverage in a wage discussion, a detail that he likes to omit, he let us know that it wasn't a joke

Now he wants to say it was a joke all along because he realizes that everyone sees him as a liar

He also claimed at one point that he put himself through law school by working at Wendy's. Something about moving up in life with determination and yadda yadda yaddasjshdbd.

 

[boris]

Your question is not simple in my opinion. You are asking me about my response to a characterization that someone made of my posts.

But to give you a direct answer: incorrect.

I do not have a link to the post.

It's very simple; no one said that supporting due process is despicable.

You conveniently misrepresented someone's position for the sake of casting them in an unfavorable light. That is my opinion of course.

 

[dwalk31]

When he was pretending to currently be a Wendy's employee to gain leverage in a wage discussion, a detail that he likes to omit, he let us know that it wasn't a joke

Now he wants to say it was a joke all along because he realizes that everyone sees him as a liar

I literally said on like the next page that I didn't actually work at Wendy's. And I said what I actually dude.

I am a liar just like the people in COAL GANG COMRADE are liars. I thought it was clear by my post that it wasn't serious. Tone doesn't translate well to text I guess.

If you think that constantly going back to a post about Wendy's months ago somehow discredits my stance on immigration reform, the economy, and due process them so be it.

To me it appears you can't discuss things on the merits so it is easier to launch tired ad hominem arguments for lolz.

Do what works for you. I posted substance regarding immigration reform. I posted substance about due process. And here you are, talking about Wendy's.

And I actually did work there a long time ago, that's why this is especially funny.

 

[stuntman mike]

I am sorry for any experience you may have had. I have been wrong.

thank you for apologizing for your terrible posts causing my unsatisfactory NT browsing experience. i'm happy to see you finally realize how bad your posts are and maybe this can be your turning point. admitting it is the first step and i wish you the best of luck on your self-improvement goals for 2019.

 

[dwalk31]

It's very simple; no one said that supporting due process is despicable.

You conveniently misrepresented someone's position for the sake of casting them in an unfavorable light. That is my opinion of course.

That is not what I did. That is what the poster who said I supported a pedophile did. And you know it.

But I'm the one trolling...

 

[dwalk31]

thank you for apologizing for your terrible posts causing my unsatisfactory NT browsing experience. i'm happy to see you finally realize how bad your posts are and maybe this can be your turning point. admitting it is the first step and i wish you the best of luck on your self-improvement goals for 2019.

K big dawg

 

[dwalk31]

He also claimed at one point that he put himself through law school by working at Wendy's. Something about moving up in life with determination and yadda yadda yaddasjshdbd.

Undergrad... and that is not a joke. But none of this actually has anything to do with political discussion. Instead the goal is to make the conversation personal to avoid the topics

 

[lightweight champion]

Did I mention Democratic political motivation???

Are you insinuating that it isn’t democratic political motivation?

 

[dwalk31]

Are you insinuating that it isn’t democratic political motivation?

I think it is a combination of democrats and republicans that did not want Trump and are offended by his antics.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Undergrad... and that is not a joke. But none of this actually has anything to do with political discussion. Instead the goal is to make the conversation personal to avoid the topics

Like when you kept asking me if I or my family was poor, so that is why I supported a social safety net.

 

[Belgium]

I think it is a combination of democrats and republicans that did not want Trump and are offended by his antics.

Would you support treason prosecutions against (or just generally imprisoning) the top individuals involved in ordering and conducting the investigation?