***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots

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I agree with the culture of losing in the party but I don't have any allusions of it being spurned on by activist rhetoric at all since all of these issues we always discuss precede this year and election cycle :lol:

The 1000 seats lost under the last Dem admin until now had absolutely nothing to do with 'defund the police'. Now it's just become a convenient scapegoat to place blame on without introspection. If it's not one thing, the other side will always make up another boogeyman irregardless of facts which is why it's a losing proposition playing by their rules out of fear of offending people who intentionally misrepresent your positions and even reality itself at every turn.

We also disagree on the phrasing being dumb or divisive seeing how defunding stuff like education, healthcare, public utilities etc is considered a necessary part of the status quo when it comes to governing yet we're supposed to buy that maybe not equipping law enforcement with the budget and equipment of standing armies is a bridge too far now??? C'mon :rofl:. It's all to do with priorities, not to do with being to extreme.

All that being said, activists =/= the party. You shouldn't conflate the 2 when both are most often separate and distinct entities. Whatever slogans come about during spontanious and organic expressions of rage and disatisfaction will never be focus group tested to guage potential reactions from unaffected groups. That's where your public officials/organizers/legislators friendly to your plight/cause come in to channel that righteous energy into tangible ways of enacting changes. Not the job of the activists in the moment who are focused on making themselves heard while also protecting themselves and their allies from very real physical persecution.

The phrase wasn't even on anyone's platform and the rare candidates who actually did pay lip service to the idea didn't lose their races either :lol:

Accepting the scare mongering as unchanging fact and using it as a stick to beat back down some of the energy within the base will always be hustling backwards imo. Siphoning that energy into a coherent vision/plan of the future is what wins long term. Look at just how effectively the other side rode the energy and anger wave within their base into domination at the state and federal level after 2010 instead of dismissing it entirely and doubling down on failed strategy.
Had this conversation last week with whoever it was. Any talking point made by dems will be used as soundbites against them and completely flipped into something it’s not. Look at antifa. There is no physical antifa yet it’s believed to be a gang of killers burning Portland for the past 4 months day after day. What the **** do you say to people that believe that? Some flat earth type mindset
 
BTW, can we please not make the argument that the Dems lost so many seats under Obama because they were not progressive and aggressive enough

That is not what happened.

Progressives need to stop saying that. You are implicitly sweeping a ton of racism and corruption under the rug when you do.
Not seeing anyone serious ignoring these causes in their analysis though, that obviously played a huge role in how things played out along with widespread gerrymandering but the fact that so many folks felt a sort of vacuum in leadership that allowed the GOP to step right in as the so called party of the 'working class', always been absolute horse****, in the first place was a failure tbh.

Not on any one person in particular but on the party as a whole for letting things get to a point where a sizeable segment of the electorate found themselves in desperation where they believe the party of corporate welfare had their best interests in mind.

The folks who are so all in on WS as a way of societal life that they can't see passed it are evidently lost but they're not the majority anymore.
 
Imma read this.

Because the tweet alone pretty much sums up my frustration with the Party.

Two minority factions are talking past one another, and even worse, straw-manning the other side.

IMO, AOC is one of the biggest offenders

She is reaching Meek Mill levels of Twitter Fingering
“The left is so consumed with convincing people they’re right, they forget to show people they can win,” the strategist added. “And the key to convincing people you’re right is to start winning.”
“We can sit around and just be pleased that our facts are better than yours. But we also need to translate that into wins across the country,” she said.

It's November 13th and I'm already tired of this. All sides need to understand they have to co-exist with a unified approach to WIN elections.
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The Kochs, Murdochs and Ailes of the world belong in prison quite frankly.

The immeasurable damage they've done to democratic institutions worldwide along with the fear and hate they've spread within populations for financial gain will last long after they're all dead unfortunately
 


they just gotta get behind closed doors and talk that stuff out and agree that no matter how hostile things get behind closed doors, it stays behind closed doors.

I like AOC. But she got a bad tendency of getting Trump like Twitter fingers and taking shots at those within her party when things don’t go her way. I’m not letting the more moderate heads off the hook either though. Yeah, some of the progressive stuff is likely a harder sell in some districts and areas than others. Still, don’t publicly blame AOC and defund the police blah blah as to why seats are lost.
 
Imma read this.

Because the tweet alone pretty much sums up my frustration with the Party.

Two minority factions are talking past one another, and even worse, straw-manning the other side.

IMO, AOC is one of the biggest offenders

She is reaching Meek Mill levels of Twitter Fingering

Her and Spanberger are not helping. Both 🤡 need to work together to make sure we keep these Republican scums down.
 
Activists that I have to talk to raised a good point to me. That their messaging is was not intended to have anything to do with the Democratic Party's national strategy.

Most of the demands were being made to local governments, and even if the slogan was not clear, they are involved in grassroots activity that makes their message clear to legislators in their cities and counties.

No one in the Democratic Party ran on that slogan, Progressive didn't push it, most activists didn't demand the Dems do it. So it is kinda a stretch to kinda a young person advocating for social change in these organic movements, to make the calculation of the consequences of their branding on the political ambitions of the Democratic Party.

It is literally not their job.

well okay i see, but imo

1. given how everything in politics gets nationalized it's just naive to think that dumb left wing activist demands won't get blown up and tied to the demcratic party.

should activists worry about that? maybe, maybe not but they shouldn't pretend like it won't happen.

2. demanding that local goverments ""defund the police" is bad and dumb and they shouldn't do it.
it's a bad slogan the radicalizes suburban moderates and working class non college educated voters against you and it's bad on the merits as it solves literally nothing.


3. yah but the "political ambitions of the democratic party" are like the principle way you actually deliver change activist claim to fight for.


i get that it's not explicitly part of their job but man i dunno at some point you have to ask.

..do you want to win or do you want to lose?
 
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