***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[tomdiginson]

they just gotta get behind closed doors and talk that stuff out and agree that no matter how hostile things get behind closed doors, it stays behind closed doors.

I like AOC. But she got a bad tendency of getting Trump like Twitter fingers and taking shots at those within her party when things don’t go her way. I’m not letting the more moderate heads off the hook either though. Yeah, some of the progressive stuff is likely a harder sell in some districts and areas than others. Still, don’t publicly blame AOC and defund the police blah blah as to why seats are lost.

QFE

 

[MVP]

Lanslide

 

[JustBlaze.]

Finally NC and GA were called. Damn.

 

[blastercombo]

Fat boy got a presser in about an hour I think

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I agree with the culture of losing in the party but I don't have any allusions of it being spurned on by activist rhetoric at all since all of these issues we always discuss precede this year and election cycle

The 1000 seats lost under the last Dem admin until now had absolutely nothing to do with 'defund the police'. Now it's just become a convenient scapegoat to place blame on without introspection. If it's not one thing, the other side will always make up another boogeyman irregardless of facts which is why it's a losing proposition playing by their rules out of fear of offending people who intentionally misrepresent your positions and even reality itself at every turn.

republicans don't have to mis represent your positions when you your position is "defund the police."

We also disagree on the phrasing being dumb or divisive seeing how defunding stuff like education, healthcare, public utilities etc is considered a necessary part of the status quo when it comes to governing yet we're supposed to buy that maybe not equipping law enforcement with the budget and equipment of standing armies is a bridge too far now??? C'mon . It's all to do with priorities, not to do with being to extreme.

this is bizarre to me

1. since when are progressives in favor of austerity? we shouldn't defund anything imo.
what does defunding solve exactly? it's a solution in search of a problem.

2. I don't think police should have the equipment of a standing army, I also don't think we should defund the police.
plenty of good policing initiatives that could use more funding not less.

All that being said, activists =/= the party. You shouldn't conflate the 2 when both are most often separate and distinct entities. Whatever slogans come about during spontanious and organic expressions of rage and disatisfaction will never be focus group tested to guage potential reactions from unaffected groups. That's where your public officials/organizers/legislators friendly to your plight/cause come in to channel that righteous energy into tangible ways of enacting changes. Not the job of the activists in the moment who are focused on making themselves heard while also protecting themselves and their allies from very real physical persecution.

okay yah i get that "it's not their job" and I used to be more sympathetic to that line or argument.

but AT SOME POINT we MUST ASK... do you want to win or do you want to lose?



I have no tolerance for activists who simply want to yell on twitter, start factional fights and deliver zero gains for communities of color.
at some point you. gotta. win.

The phrase wasn't even on anyone's platform and the rare candidates who actually did pay lip service to the idea didn't lose their races either

Accepting the scare mongering as unchanging fact and using it as a stick to beat back down some of the energy within the base will always be hustling backwards imo. Siphoning that energy into a coherent vision/plan of the future is what wins long term. Look at just how effectively the other side rode the energy and anger wave within their base into domination at the state and federal level after 2010 instead of dismissing it entirely and doubling down on failed strategy.

given how everything in politics gets nationalized I just don't think activist can just take this stance anymore.
you GOTTA know stupid slogans will get magnified

and you gotta find a way to activate people without radicalizing potential allies against you.

 

[whywesteppin]

Lanslide

It's poetic that Trump lost in 2020 by the same margin he won by in 2016, especially after he spent the past 4 years bragging about how much he had won by.

 

[blastercombo]

It's poetic that Trump lost in 2020 by the same margin he won by in 2016, especially after he spent the past 4 years bragging about how much he had won by.

What a complete loser. Complete bald loser

 

[elpablo21]

SHELLACKING

 

[Based Jesus]

2. I don't think police should have the equipment of a standing army, I also don't think we should defund the police.
plenty of good policing initiatives that could use more funding not less.

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

 

[junglejim]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

Plus, wasn't this guy the one saying Bernie was the only one who could win?

 

[elpablo21]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

 

[Upptempo]

Gonna assume this lady doesn't represent a GA district that voted Biden

 

[blastercombo]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

 

[MVP]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

lol keep telling yourself that.

if you wanna be in league with idiots I certainly won't stop you.
You might actually be right at home.

 

[aj11fan]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Plus, wasn't this guy the one saying Bernie was the only one who could win?

no. I didn't say that.

here is what I actually said.

IMO the sensible choice is either Bernie or Biden, im willing to take a calculated gamble on the upside of a Bernie administration.

 

[getback]

There is no "we" here. You live in Canada. So frankly, your opinion on this subject matters very little.

Got eem

 

[RustyShackleford]

well okay i see, but imo

1. given how everything in politics gets nationalized it's just naive to think that dumb left wing activist demands won't get blown up and tied to the demcratic party.

should activists worry about that? maybe, maybe not but they shouldn't pretend like it won't happen.

2. demanding that local goverments ""defund the police" is bad and dumb and they shouldn't do it.
it's a bad slogan the radicalizes suburban moderates and working class non college educated voters against you and it's bad on the merits as it solves literally nothing.


3. yah but the "political ambitions of the democratic party" are like the principle way you actually deliver change activist claim to fight for.


i get that it's not explicitly part of their job but man i dunno at some point you have to ask.

..do you want to win or do you want to lose?

1. They are not political analysts or pundits. They are trying to make their communities a little bit more liveable. Like really, your critique is basically that these folk didn't properly consider how the GOP would flip their slogan into a propaganda campaign against an entity that they don't even represent.

Plus who is pretending like they don't know what the GOP is about? Where in the flying **** are you getting this?

2. They are asking local government to literally defund the police. They are asking them to reallocate part of the police budget to other social services or increase social services funding by itself. Lowering the need to extra police presence in communities, so police don't have to act as social workers and focus on crime deterrence. These people meet with legislators, they do to townhalls, they collect signatures. It is ridiculous for local legislators to act like these people are being unreasonable when day after day, month after month, year after year, the same people make the same reasonable demands.

Again, these activists live in these cities, they are the ones that deal with the fallout. They are demanding change in their communities. Like when folk are demanding the boot being taken off their neck just a little, you really think they are giving much thought to how suburban whites that don't even live in their communities will react. Their main calculation is to get local action done. And in many of these cities, they have to deal with Dems that ask for their vote but refuse to pull the trigger reasonable demand year after year. Raising the temperature in the room to the point people lash out because they are tired of asking nicely over and over and being met with inaction over and over. The policy demand behind the defund the police slogan have been around for decades.

And then to top it off, get greeted with **** like "Think about how white people that don't even live in your area feel about this"

You seem to only think of activists as a) People on Twitter and online b) Who attend marches c) the most unreasonable of the bunch. Most activism that takes place in political spaces are not that.

3. These same activists take to the streets to register people, knock on doors, and try their best to deliver votes for the progressive candidates specially and the Democratic Party generally. Let us remember that on a local level these people are also being failed by Democrats. Yet they still support them. So it is kinda ****ing ridiculous to me that everyone is running to throw them under the bus, ignoring how much they do to save the Dems from even worse electoral losses.

This circles back to my comment about your view being shaped by not living in America. Ok, in hindsight they should have picked a better slogan. However, you're talking like you expect people that just want to see their community just a tad bit better always stop, and think about all the political calculations involved in every decision. It seems like it is an easy demand to make when you don't have to live in those communities.

 

[RustyShackleford]

republicans don't have to mis represent your positions when you your position is "defund the police."



this is bizarre to me

1. since when are progressives in favor of austerity? we shouldn't defund anything imo.
what does defunding solve exactly? it's a solution in search of a problem.

2. I don't think police should have the equipment of a standing army, I also don't think we should defund the police.
plenty of good policing initiatives that could use more funding not less.




okay yah i get that "it's not their job" and I used to be more sympathetic to that line or argument.

but AT SOME POINT we MUST ASK... do you want to win or do you want to lose?



I have no tolerance for activists who simply want to yell on twitter, start factional fights and deliver zero gains for communities of color.
at some point you. gotta. win.



given how everything in politics gets nationalized I just don't think activist can just take this stance anymore.
you GOTTA know stupid slogans will get magnified

and you gotta find a way to activate people without radicalizing potential allies against you.

While I can admit that there was a problem with the "defund the police" slogan because it implied something different than what folk were asking for, and it took a lot of extra explaining to make that clear.

You seem to not be fully aware of the policy demands people were actually making to their local legislators.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. They are not political analysts or pundits. They are trying to make their communities a little bit more liveable. Like really, your critique is basically that these folk didn't properly consider how the GOP would flip their slogan into a propaganda campaign against an entity that they don't even represent.

Who is pretending like they don't know what the GOP is about? Where in the flying **** are you getting this?

2. They are asking local government to literally defund the police. They are asking them to reallocate part of the police budget to other social services or increase social services funding by itself. Lowering the need to extra police presence in communities. These people meet with legislators, they do to townhalls, they collect signatures. It is ridiculous for local legislators to act like these people are being unreasonable when day after day, month after month, year after year, the same people make the same reasonable demands.

Again, these activists live in these cities, they are the ones that deal with the fallout. They are demanding change in their communities. Like when folk are demanding the boot being taken off their neck just a little, you really think they are giving much thought to how suburban whites that don't even live in their communities will react. Their main calculation is to get local action done. And in many of these cities, they have to deal with Dems that ask for their vote but refuse to pull the trigger reasonable demand year after year. Raising the temperature in the room to the point people lash out because they are tired of asking nicely over and over and being met with inaction over and over. The policy demand behind the defund the police slogan have been around for decades.

And then to top it off, get greeted with **** like "Think about how white people that don't even live in your area feel about this"

You seem to only think of activists as a) People on Twitter and online b) Who attend marches c) the most unreasonable of the bunch. Most activism that takes place in political spaces are not that.

3. These same activists take to the streets to register people, knock on doors, and try their best to deliver votes for the progressive candidates specially and the Democratic Party generally. Let us remember that on a local level these people are also being failed by Democrats. Yet they still support them. So it is kinda ****ing ridiculous to me that everyone is running to throw them under the bus, ignoring how much they do to save the Dems from even worse electoral losses.

This circles back to my comment about your view being shaped by not living in America. Ok, in hindsight they should have picked a better slogan. However, you're talking like you expect people that just want to see their community just a tad bit better always stop, and think about all the political calculations involved in every decision. It seems like it is an easy demand to make when you don't have to live in those communities.

Even if I ignore the democratic party ambitions and just look at it at a local level.

I don't see how adopting unpopular framing does anything to make your community more livable.


like supporting non police first responders, de escalation training, higher police recruitment standard, banning chokeholds,



none of the this requires defunding the police, why adopt the unpopular framing,

1. when defunding isn't necessary to the larger goal
2. lots of research out there says minority communities are under policed and over policed.

over policed in the sense that local police use minority communities to generate fines but spend less time actually trying to solve murders/prevent crime.

 

[Armada]

Gonna assume this lady doesn't represent a GA district that voted Biden

Your assumption is correct. The district she represents is deep red in north Georgia and they voted in a straight up conspiracy theorist nutjob

 

[jewseejay]

Defund the police.

 

[blastercombo]

Gonna assume this lady doesn't represent a GA district that voted Biden

Lol her chubby *** don’t work out. #Freeyourmuffintop.Another small part of America that’s best to be enclosed by a large impenetrable wall

 

[blastercombo]

Even if I ignore the democratic party ambitions and just look at it at a local level.

I don't see how adopting unpopular framing does anything to make your community more livable.


like supporting non police first responders, de escalation training, higher police recruitment standard, banning chokeholds,



none of the this requires defunding the police, why adopt the unpopular framing,

1. when defunding isn't necessary to the larger goal
2. lots of research out there says minority communities are under policed and over policed.

over policed in the sense that local police use minority communities to generate fines but spend less time actually trying to solve murders/prevent crime.

Where would that money come from? Which department receives so much funding that they have to waste money in order to not have funding cut for the next year just to do all over again?

you sound like a Kap knee hater. “Can’t you protest when I want you to??”