School Me On This Russia/Ukraine Kerfuffle

[osh kosh bosh]

Ovechkin def in my top 3 favorite athletes of all time,


it would have been pretty tough if he went full Putin stooge.

 

[earldagoat]

Latest Russia-Ukraine updates: Battles rage for Ukraine’s cities

Ukraine news from February 26: UN says internal displacement also growing as Ukraine forces battle all-round assault.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Mr Dink]

da real sanctions. if Adidas halted exports Putin gonna have a stampede of f bois at his door

You hate to see it. Russian citizens paying the ultimate price cuz of Putin.

 

[boxer15]

I thought this was Tom Hardy for a second.

That’s Dr. Ironfist.

 

[danikerhino]

Yea its wild how no one seems to grasp this. Everyone thinks hes an egotistical madman thats trying to restore the ussr, thats literally all you will hear watching coverage of these events. It may be true but thats not what happening here. He doesn't even want ukraine, hes willing to let them chill as long as they dont have military powers and/or a western backed govt right on his doorstep.

This doesn't make sense. Putin does want Ukraine and wants to impliment a pro-Russian regime. And even he would take Ukraine, they would still be surrounded by pro-western countries except for Belarus.

Also, Zelensky isn't some American puppet. If anything, many believed that he was pro-Russian because he has deep ties to a powerful Russian oligarch.

I do believe that we shouldn't build up arms near areas bordering Russia, but this was 100% a Putin offensive as Ukraine nor the west has never threatened to conduct an offensive against Russia through Ukraine.

 

[earldagoat]

 

[fargin]

Ukraine's U.N. ambassador speaks right now, his speech is a must listen:

Timestamped the beginning of Ukrainian Ambassador Sergiy Kyslytsya's speech.




Speakers prior to him are the United States', KGB's and China's ambassadors. Just a mild warning, if you go back a couple of minutes to listen to Vasily Nebenzya(scumbag), you may have to fight a strong urge to destroy whatever device, you're watching his heinousness on.

 

[Smokecitykicks]

Get ready

 

[Coupé It]

The pessimistic me thinks Putin doesn't give a **** if the economy is already tanked, and if the people suffer because of it. If he gave an ounce about economics he wouldn't have done this

Putin has been waiting for this his whole life.

 

[Hijo Del Promo]

Putin has been waiting for this his whole life.

Waiting to end up up like Mussolini, Ghadafi, Sadam, etc... What life goals.

 

[frankmatthews]

This doesn't make sense. Putin does want Ukraine and wants to impliment a pro-Russian regime. And even he would take Ukraine, they would still be surrounded by pro-western countries except for Belarus.

Also, Zelensky isn't some American puppet. If anything, many believed that he was pro-Russian because he has deep ties to a powerful Russian oligarch.

I do believe that we shouldn't build up arms near areas bordering Russia, but this was 100% a Putin offensive as Ukraine nor the west has never threatened to conduct an offensive against Russia through Ukraine.

President Vladimir Putin said he’s ready to authorize talks with Ukraine on a possible neutral status for the country, hours after speaking with Chinese leader Xi Jinping as Russia’s military invasion approached Kyiv.

Putin is willing to take up a proposal by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to discuss neutrality, and to send a delegation to the Belarusian capital, Minsk, for talks, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday. There was no immediate response from Kyiv to the announcement.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I meant I dont think hes intending to absorb ukraine into russia in an attempt to expand the empire as is the narrative for this invasion. He doesnt want the current govt in power as he perceives it as a threat. He doesnt trust them based on the manner they came to power and the fact that members of the ukranian govt have openly targeted ethnic russians. Obviously he would prefer a pro russian govt right on his boarder as any country would. The democratically elected pro russian govt they HAD was overthrown by a coup which the US supported. Now ukraine has a democratically elected govt that is pro western, funny how that works. We've seen this time and time again, US globetrotting spreading fredom and democracy, but only when its in their best interest.

Ukraine is different from other eastern european countries in that it is in a strategic position on the black sea. Crimea was about maintaining that access for the russian navy, and so is this.

What do you mean the US or ukraine has never threatened an offensive? Do you think they're gonna notify him of their intentions beforehand? No one would know that outside of intelligence agencies. And its not even about threatening offensive actions, its about having an upperhand militarily, which the US is clearly trying to gain throughout eastern europe, I think the black sea was a bridge too far for russia to accept. The fact the US supported a coup on their boarder on a govt they got along with was threat enough. Building up arms across eastern europe is exactly what the US has been doing. Had any country even thought about doing this on or near our boarders we would be in there so fast and everyone would support it. Yet everyone acts so shocked russia would do the same.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[danikerhino]

President Vladimir Putin said he’s ready to authorize talks with Ukraine on a possible neutral status for the country, hours after speaking with Chinese leader Xi Jinping as Russia’s military invasion approached Kyiv.

Putin is willing to take up a proposal by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to discuss neutrality, and to send a delegation to the Belarusian capital, Minsk, for talks, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday. There was no immediate response from Kyiv to the announcement.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I meant I dont think hes intending to absorb ukraine into russia in an attempt to expand the empire as is the narrative for this invasion. He doesnt want the current govt in power as he perceives it as a threat. He doesnt trust them based on the manner they came to power and the fact that members of the ukranian govt have openly targeted ethnic russians. Obviously he would prefer a pro russian govt right on his boarder as any country would. The democratically elected pro russian govt they HAD was overthrown by a coup which the US supported. Now ukraine has a democratically elected govt that is pro western, funny how that works. We've seen this time and time again, US globetrotting spreading fredom and democracy, but only when its in their best interest.

Ukraine is different from other eastern european countries in that it is in a strategic position on the black sea. Crimea was about maintaining that access for the russian navy, and so is this.

What do you mean the US or ukraine has never threatened an offensive? Do you think they're gonna notify him of their intentions beforehand? No one would know that outside of intelligence agencies. And its not even about threatening offensive actions, its about having an upperhand militarily, which the US is clearly trying to gain throughout eastern europe, I think the black sea was a bridge too far for russia to accept. The fact the US supported a coup on their boarder on a govt they got along with was threat enough. Building up arms across eastern europe is exactly what the US has been doing. Had any country even thought about doing this on or near our boarders we would be in there so fast and everyone would support it. Yet everyone acts so shocked russia would do the same.

Neutral status for Ukraine means a dissolution of the current Ukrainian government and replacing it with a Russian regime. This offensive is to expand his influence and overthrow Ukraine. And they took Crimea and already has access to the Black Sea, so this is more than just occupying the Black Sea.

It was the Ukranians citizens that was fed up with the former president for being Pro-Russian. The US didn't influence anything. They wanted to be more aligned with the European Union. They made the choice to vote for Zelensky. As I said before, some were even questioning whether or another Zelensky might have even be pro russian since he had ties to a powerful Oligarch. It's not a western puppet state, it's just a nation where the majority of its people don't want to fall under Russia again and favors a more Westernized society.

The US nor Ukraine have never threatened Russia because there would be nothing to gain from doing that, which means that it was even more egregious for Russia to take Crimea and Ukraine. Especially based on the fact that Russia has plenty of access to the Black Sea without the need to invade Ukraine. The only notable mlitary build up by the US is in Eastern Germany, we don't have bases in any of the Eastern European countries. The only actions we take is provide them with defensive weapons just in case of invasion like this, many of which came after Georgia got invaded. Russia was never threatened by any invasion in any of the bordering nations, yet they say that this move is a defensive strategy. A defensive strategy to what, none of these countries can't seriously invade Russia and as we see now, can even barely defend themselves against Russia. Putin wants to impliment a new "eastern bloc" to assert his power and influence in the region. This countries broke away from the USSR once it dissolved, they have never had intentions of going on the offensive against Russia nor threatened them with conflict. So why don't you tell me which country actually has the means to change the political landscape over there because it certainly isn't Ukraine nor any of the other surrounding Eastern European nations.

 

[Coupé It]

The guy made it. He was an old man in the car.

People had to rescue. Bosa posted it.

 

[fluid hips]

Russia is not going after Latvia, Lithuania or Poland.

NATO should NEVER have even suggested that one of the most corrupt countries in Europe like Ukraine join them - no reasonable superpower (especially the largest country in the world) is letting their enemies build bases and put missile systems in a very strategic location like the Black Sea. Imagine if the CCP/PLA and/or Russia wanted to do the same in Canada or Mexico - the reaction from the US would be swift and devastating. They (Russia) warned them repeatedly over the past few years not to do this.

I feel for the people of Ukraine and I hope this conflict is resolved quickly but their leadership should've avoided this entirely.

Their "leadership" was put in place by the west for this reason. A puppet state to protect western interests

 

[danikerhino]

Their "leadership" was put in place by the west for this reason. A puppet state to protect western interests

Zelensky won the election by a landslide with 73% of the votes, which mean the Ukranian populous favored him. It's fair to say that his nation placed him in office. Furthermore, most of the former "eastern bloc" nations were anti-USSR without any outside influence. Just because a country is Anti-Russian doesn't make them a puppet state.

 

[gry60]

Yea its wild how no one seems to grasp this. Everyone thinks hes an egotistical madman thats trying to restore the ussr, thats literally all you will hear watching coverage of these events. It may be true but thats not what happening here. He doesn't even want ukraine, hes willing to let them chill as long as they dont have military powers and/or a western backed govt right on his doorstep.

Russia is not going after Latvia, Lithuania or Poland.

NATO should NEVER have even suggested that one of the most corrupt countries in Europe like Ukraine join them - no reasonable superpower (especially the largest country in the world) is letting their enemies build bases and put missile systems in a very strategic location like the Black Sea. Imagine if the CCP/PLA and/or Russia wanted to do the same in Canada or Mexico - the reaction from the US would be swift and devastating. They (Russia) warned them repeatedly over the past few years not to do this.

I feel for the people of Ukraine and I hope this conflict is resolved quickly but their leadership should've avoided this entirely.

How NATO's expansion helped drive Putin to invade Ukraine

Here is how the history of NATO, Russia and Ukraine got so complicated.

www.npr.org

The question: Should NATO, the mutual defense pact formed in the wake of World War II that has long served to represent Western interests and counter Russia's influence in Europe, expand eastward?

NATO's founding articles declare that any European country that is able to meet the alliance's criteria for membership can join. This includes Ukraine. The U.S. and its allies in Europe have repeatedly said they are committed to that "open-door" policy.

There is some disagreement about what took place during the Baker-Gorbachev talks in February 1990. Some say that when Baker suggested that NATO shift not "one inch" to the east, he intended to refer only to East Germany, because neither side had begun to think about NATO expansion beyond that.

Seemingly conflicting comments from U.S. officials and Gorbachev made years later do not help clear this up. (Former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said as recently as Friday that "nobody was even imagining Czechoslovakia or Poland or Hungary at that time.")

The historical record shows otherwise, according to Sarotte. Contemporaneous notes, letters, speeches and interviews show that Western leaders were, in fact, already contemplating NATO enlargement by the time the February 1990 talks took place, she says.

What is not in dispute: Gorbachev later agreed to withdraw from East Germany in exchange for financial concessions, in a treaty that did not place limits on the future expansion of NATO.

"But there's this residual bitterness afterwards. Still, to this day, Putin is saying, 'Look, there was this other offer on the table, right?' " Sarotte said. "And that's sort of factually accurate in a narrow sense, but it doesn't reflect the reality of the treaty."

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the NATO expansion question became more urgent — both for the U.S. looking to cement its influence in Europe and for countries emerging from communist control, like Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic.

"They believed that the United States could bring them into the West, which was what they wanted. And they believed that the United States could protect them if Russia ever became aggressive again," said James Goldgeier, an American University professor who has written extensively about NATO.

I think both of you are missing the larger, historical context of the relationship between Russia and its neighbors.

Putin has repeatedly declared that Ukraine as a state is a manufactured entity.

Putin himself has long said that he believes Ukrainians and Russians to be a single people, unified by language, culture and religion. In July 2021, he wrote a long essay about the "historical unity" between the two nations.

this suggests that he doesn't consider that Ukrainians have a right to self-determination. This is the same argument that Western European powers made to justify their handling of African countries' foreign policy prior to 1960. It's nothing but colonial speech.

The democratically elected pro russian govt they HAD was overthrown by a coup which the US supported.

You keep pushing this point as if the US sent material support to Ukrainian protestors. And you also seem to forget that Russia sent snipers and advisers to Kyiv to quell the manifestations. You also forget that this is what triggered the protests:

In November 2013, a wave of large scale protests (known as Euromaidan) erupted in response to President Yanukovych's refusal to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU) at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership in Vilnius in Lithuania. These protests continued for months. In February 2014, clashes between the protestors and the Berkut (special riot police) became violent, and resulted in the deaths of nearly 130 people, including 18 police officers.[28] On February 21, an agreement between President Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for early elections and the formation of an interim unity government. The following day, Yanukovych fled from the capital ahead of an impeachment vote.[29] The protesters proceeded to take control of the capital buildings. On the same day, the parliament declared that Yanukovych was relieved of duty in a 328-to-0 vote (out of the Rada’s 450 members).

To put things in context, a greater economic link to Europe with eventual admission to the EU would be a boon to the Ukrainian population, something that Russia has failed to offer.

Ukraine is different from other eastern european countries in that it is in a strategic position on the black sea.

Turkey is NATO, and it sits south of the Black Sea.

I meant I dont think hes intending to absorb ukraine into russia in an attempt to expand the empire as is the narrative for this invasion.

Someone literally posted, in this thread, a video of Putin grilling his intelligence chief, who admitted (unwittingly, apparently) that they intended to annex the two separatist regions, after which Putin redirects him.

It is misplaced to think that ideology doesn't drive the leaders of great powers.

 

[fluid hips]

I thought Europeans were civilized

Straight up barbaric

 

[danikerhino]

I thought Europeans were civilized

Straight up barbaric

Nah, they caused both of the biggest wars in the modern history.

That is hella barbaric.

 

[keko jones]

This is definitely rhetoric... no way amyone would let this fly.

 

[frink85]

Isn’t that against the Geneva conventions or something? War crimes?

 

[danikerhino]

Isn’t that against the Geneva conventions or something? War crimes?

Putin invading Ukraine in itself is against the Geneva Convention. Unfortunately, he would have to be turned in and go on trail to even face any realistic repercussions for his actions.

 

[keko jones]

Isn’t that against the Geneva conventions or something? War crimes?

Geneva convention or not, no one in the world would allowed a leader to murder military families in retaliation ... they would have to assure their military that it would protect their families at all cost.

 

[Zainjal26]

Have y’all seen this on twitter

This delusional chick is getting flamed relentlessly on twitter .

 

[mplsdunk]

tf?

I just keep seeing Kendall Jenner Pepsi memes and change.org memes.

That’s too much.