The Best player NOT to win an NBA Championship...

[darko for mvp]

Stockton and Malone, hands down.

 

[indohan]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

^^if you read the rest of my post, i acknowleged that he won that ring. But the Knicks were also without Ewing in that finals series. And Tim duncan was the centerpiece of that team.

But what i meant by 90s is that when Pat and Dave were both leading their respective teams in both their primes, Pat was the one who was leading the elite team. Yar in and out he was battiling in grueling 7 game series by one of the GOAT teams of all team in the Bulls who also had the GOAT on their team. The Bulls never won easy in NY. And when MJ was out Pat led us to the finals and yes he fell up short but to another great center in 7 games. When Robinson was leading the Spurs in the 90s, he might have put up stats, but where were they in June? Even in the west, the Spurs never went anywhere... Fact is when they were both leading teams, Ewing's team was elite, and the Spurs were not. Pat was better in their primes. Robinson has a ring, but so what he did not lead that team, that is like saying that Zo is the best center of all time because he has a ring in one of his last years on a team led by D Wade and Shaq. I mean the Admiral had a larger role with the 99 Spurs, but in the 90s when he was in his prime he couldnt get his team anywhere. Pat made the Knicks elite.

Pat>>>>>Admiral

Dude, seriously. How much do you know about the 90s? According to your profile, you were born in the 90s.
You were not even 10 years old when David won his first ring..

Nuff said.
I don't mean to mock or anything like that by using your age.
Do your research: Wikipedia is your friend, not Chickipedia. He and TD brought the team.

and... BullsRepeat3peat, what's so funny?

 

[size twelve]

how old are you guys to be debating the centers of the 80s/early 90s? i watched all those playoff series and finals that you guys probably only saw highlightsof.


hakeem definitely dominated both ewing and robinson, both on offense and defense.


ewing was a warrior, but always came up short when it mattered. when starks shot them out of the finals, he should have taken his teammate aside and told himto stop jacking 3s.


robinson was the first KG - amazing physically, but would rather defer to teammates and never won for himself. one of the nicest, but most overrated players ofall time.


an aside about KG - the only time i've ever seen him really take over a game was the 2nd overtime of the 2003 ASG, and i've been watching since hisrookie year.

 

[indohan]

^^ Exactly... Unfortunately, Hakeem won 2 rings.. This NYK kid has too much NY pride that he ignores Hakeem and Robinson...

And... KG can't be compared to Robinson.. Because KG is not a center...

 

[bigtomgetsgwap]

All time Barkley...Right now KG but he'll get one

 

[allen3xis]

That team does not sniff a championship without Duncan.

Pat was every good as bit as Robinson

Not that it matters in this discussion, but Pat did beat Hakeem for a championship before

I just say that because I hate how everyone always calls Pat a loser (not you guys)

 

[ultrasur1]

barkley was a beast on the court.

i didn't appreciate him as much when he was actually playing, probably because there was such incredible talent in the nba during his era, but he was theman.

 

[justballin11]

Reggie

 

[lightweight champion]

Originally Posted by Enlightened Thought

Why Kidd deserved it more:
[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)]He took the cellar dweller of the East and took them from worst to first[/color] and all the way to the NBA Finals that year. Duncan on the other hand, dropped from 1st in the West to 3rd (don't let the seedings fool you) and was eliminated from the playoffs in the 2nd round in 5 games to the Lakers.

lest we forget, playoffs has no say in voting for season mvp.

my picks:

1. stockton
2. barkley
3. malone

oh, and Hakeem > David Robinson > Patrick Ewing


That had nothing to do with the playoffs and everything to do with the regular season. If Nash can get his MVPs by doing what Kidd did for the Nets, thenKidd deserves more than one MVP. Why? He took the Suns to the playoffs every year with less talent than what Nash has to work with.

 

[size twelve]

i guess i can't fault everyone for sleeping on elgin, since he was before all of our times.


but he was the precursor to mike.. just had to play during the golden age of the celtics.


as far as right now, i'd have to roll with iverson or kidd. and for the future, for some reason i have a feeling that melo will be destined to never win achampionship.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

and... BullsRepeat3peat, what's so funny?

never mind I think I misunderstood what you originally said...... But IMO Pat was just as good as Robinson skill wise, though maybe not as athletic..... and Iagree Hakeem was the best center in the 90s and dominated, but that's not taking anything away from Ewing or Robinson.... Hakeem is probably the mostskilled center to ever play.. but if not for John Starks streaky shooting in the '94 Finals I think the Knicks would have won the championship....that wasStarks biggest weakness, when he was hot, he was hot.... but otherwise dude could shoot himself right out of a game

....

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by indohan

Originally Posted by THE GR8

^^if you read the rest of my post, i acknowleged that he won that ring. But the Knicks were also without Ewing in that finals series. And Tim duncan was the centerpiece of that team.

But what i meant by 90s is that when Pat and Dave were both leading their respective teams in both their primes, Pat was the one who was leading the elite team. Yar in and out he was battiling in grueling 7 game series by one of the GOAT teams of all team in the Bulls who also had the GOAT on their team. The Bulls never won easy in NY. And when MJ was out Pat led us to the finals and yes he fell up short but to another great center in 7 games. When Robinson was leading the Spurs in the 90s, he might have put up stats, but where were they in June? Even in the west, the Spurs never went anywhere... Fact is when they were both leading teams, Ewing's team was elite, and the Spurs were not. Pat was better in their primes. Robinson has a ring, but so what he did not lead that team, that is like saying that Zo is the best center of all time because he has a ring in one of his last years on a team led by D Wade and Shaq. I mean the Admiral had a larger role with the 99 Spurs, but in the 90s when he was in his prime he couldnt get his team anywhere. Pat made the Knicks elite.

Pat>>>>>Admiral

Dude, seriously. How much do you know about the 90s? According to your profile, you were born in the 90s.
You were not even 10 years old when David won his first ring..

Nuff said.
I don't mean to mock or anything like that by using your age.
Do your research: Wikipedia is your friend, not Chickipedia. He and TD brought the team.

and... BullsRepeat3peat, what's so funny?

Man you honestly dont think that i know the facts?

First of all as my man said earlier Pat always played with inferior talent, but he was still always in the picture in the 90s. How can you blame Pat for notbeating MJ? Nobody beat MJ, but than again nobody came as close as Pat did. They were getting in these 7 game series all the time. And for ANYBODY who sayswhen it mattered Pat came up short you get the big...

Anybody who says that is basing his !%$% off of Pat never getting a ringmore than actually watching his performances. Pat always was at his best when his team needed him to be the most. I mean come on look at the OJ Simpson gamewhere Pat dominated in a huge game for the nicks. Look up the stats, some of Pats all time best gams came around when it mattered and he was going head to headvs Hakeem Olajuwon in 94, and he fell short cause Staks had an off night. On the other hand, where was The Admiral in the 90s when it mattered. Oh yeah thatsright he was getting $*##+%* around by Hakeem Olajuwon, never stepping up and even really challenging them. I wont argue that Pat is not as good as Hakeem,cause when they went head to head it was Hakeem who took the ring home. They both battled, but one man has to lose and unfourtunately it was Pat. But on theother hand i will argue all da that Pat was better than David, David was nowhere to be foun late in the playoffs in the 90s, where Pat's Knicks were eliteyear in and year out. And he got a ring, so what? I mean he obviously wasnt that important to the team, considering they still got like 3 after he left. Factis that was Tim Duncan's team and the Knicks were also missing their star center and leader during that series. I dont want to take anything away from theAdmiral but take out Duncan, the Spurs were nothing special. And dont try and diss my knowledge i #$+*#++ lived on that Knicks playoff run in 99, i guarenteeyou that i knew just as much or more about that series i dont give a +%$* how old you were. Pat always stepped up and Pat was a warrior, WHENEVER the Knicksneeded a big performance, they got it. That Bulls team was always FAR more talented than the Knicks. I mean along with the GOAT, there wasnt another Knick onthose teams as good as Pippen (who Pat beat when there was no MJ) and not to mention guys like Rodman, Kukoc, Bill Cartwright early on, etc. But still Pat wasalways stepping up and taking his out matched Knicks team t have battles of historic proportions vs the Bulls. Pat never won a ring but he ALWAYS stepped upIMO.

and once again, Pat>>>>Admiral

 

[indohan]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

Originally Posted by indohan

Originally Posted by THE GR8

^^if you read the rest of my post, i acknowleged that he won that ring. But the Knicks were also without Ewing in that finals series. And Tim duncan was the centerpiece of that team.

But what i meant by 90s is that when Pat and Dave were both leading their respective teams in both their primes, Pat was the one who was leading the elite team. Yar in and out he was battiling in grueling 7 game series by one of the GOAT teams of all team in the Bulls who also had the GOAT on their team. The Bulls never won easy in NY. And when MJ was out Pat led us to the finals and yes he fell up short but to another great center in 7 games. When Robinson was leading the Spurs in the 90s, he might have put up stats, but where were they in June? Even in the west, the Spurs never went anywhere... Fact is when they were both leading teams, Ewing's team was elite, and the Spurs were not. Pat was better in their primes. Robinson has a ring, but so what he did not lead that team, that is like saying that Zo is the best center of all time because he has a ring in one of his last years on a team led by D Wade and Shaq. I mean the Admiral had a larger role with the 99 Spurs, but in the 90s when he was in his prime he couldnt get his team anywhere. Pat made the Knicks elite.

Pat>>>>>Admiral

Dude, seriously. How much do you know about the 90s? According to your profile, you were born in the 90s.
You were not even 10 years old when David won his first ring..

Nuff said.
I don't mean to mock or anything like that by using your age.
Do your research: Wikipedia is your friend, not Chickipedia. He and TD brought the team.

and... BullsRepeat3peat, what's so funny?

Man you honestly dont think that i know the facts?

First of all as my man said earlier Pat always played with inferior talent, but he was still always in the picture in the 90s. How can you blame Pat for not beating MJ? Nobody beat MJ, but than again nobody came as close as Pat did. They were getting in these 7 game series all the time. And for ANYBODY who says when it mattered Pat came up short you get the big...

Anybody who says that is basing his !%$% off of Pat never getting a ring more than actually watching his performances. Pat always was at his best when his team needed him to be the most. I mean come on look at the OJ Simpson game where Pat dominated in a huge game for the nicks. Look up the stats, some of Pats all time best gams came around when it mattered and he was going head to head vs Hakeem Olajuwon in 94, and he fell short cause Staks had an off night. On the other hand, where was The Admiral in the 90s when it mattered. Oh yeah thats right he was getting $*##+%* around by Hakeem Olajuwon, never stepping up and even really challenging them. I wont argue that Pat is not as good as Hakeem, cause when they went head to head it was Hakeem who took the ring home. They both battled, but one man has to lose and unfourtunately it was Pat. But on the other hand i will argue all da that Pat was better than David, David was nowhere to be foun late in the playoffs in the 90s, where Pat's Knicks were elite year in and year out. And he got a ring, so what? I mean he obviously wasnt that important to the team, considering they still got like 3 after he left. Fact is that was Tim Duncan's team and the Knicks were also missing their star center and leader during that series. I dont want to take anything away from the Admiral but take out Duncan, the Spurs were nothing special. And dont try and diss my knowledge i #$+*#++ lived on that Knicks playoff run in 99, i guarentee you that i knew just as much or more about that series i dont give a +%$* how old you were. Pat always stepped up and Pat was a warrior, WHENEVER the Knicks needed a big performance, they got it. That Bulls team was always FAR more talented than the Knicks. I mean along with the GOAT, there wasnt another Knick on those teams as good as Pippen (who Pat beat when there was no MJ) and not to mention guys like Rodman, Kukoc, Bill Cartwright early on, etc. But still Pat was always stepping up and taking his out matched Knicks team t have battles of historic proportions vs the Bulls. Pat never won a ring but he ALWAYS stepped up IMO.

and once again, Pat>>>>Admiral

1. DETROIT PISTONS BEAT MJ, TWO FREAKING TIMES. 1988, 1989, YEARS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN.
FYI, MJ was at his peak during those years.

2. Need another picture from Google that show's David Robinson holding the NBA trophy?

And... "The Admiral OBVIOUSLY not that important to the Spurs"? Seriously?
Wait wait.. Patrick Ewing did not win any Championship for Knicks, his #33 Jersey is retired by the Knicks.. So... Damn right you are, Patrick is important tothe Knicks...
David Robinson, brought the team to 2 Championships, #50 Jersey is retired, Career high of 71 points. "Not that important"? ROLF ROLF ROLF!!!!!!

3. YES, from those I UNDERLINED, I HONESLY don't think you know the facts..
You can argue all you want that Patrick Ewing is the best center in the world during his time bla bla bla...
It's because.... You know nothing about the 90s..

For now, goodluck on supporting your current Knicks.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

indohan, ya but those Pistons took out the other Bulls (MJ'steammates)...basically they left Mike standing up by himself, not to mention all the physical play.. I remember Rodman would punch Pip in the face

.....but you can't really blame Mike for those losses.... dude wanted to win so bad.... it wasn't even funny.. In my years of watching the NBAI've never seen any NBA player that frustrated... I remember they showed him on the bench, you almost felt bad for the dude........ Even though I was realyoung during those Pistons/Bulls series....

Athletically, sure. The team and him as a complete player? yeah right


Jordan's individual prime was anywhere from 87-93........ Pick your choice..... personally I think it was 92 or 93.... Can't decide between the two

 

[allen3xis]

MJ was at his peak during those years.
Athletically, sure. The team and him as a complete player? yeah right


And Tim Duncan brought SA championships. He was the 2nd option on the first team and a role player on the 2nd.

I'm not saying Pat is better, but he is every bit as equal

 

[indohan]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

MJ was at his peak during those years.

Athletically, sure. The team and him as a complete player? yeah right


And Tim Duncan brought SA championships. He was the 2nd option on the first team and a role player on the 2nd.

I'm not saying Pat is better, but he is every bit as equal


I didn't say the team was at their peak. I said HE WAS at his peak.
That period of time was just exactly like Kobe's past 2 seasons. 81 points but no more than first round of playoff...

I can accept that David is equal to Patrick... But better than David? That kid really need some NBA-history 101.

 

[size twelve]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

Pippen (who Pat beat when there was no MJ)

umm.. hue hollins beat the bulls.

he called a phantom foul on pip on a hubert davis 3 point shot, that won the knicks that series.


and i was pulling for the knicks hard in 1999 but in a lot of ways they were better with the quicker spree/camby dominated lineup.


if anything it was larry johnson going down that sealed their fate.


and even then, the admiral was already shooting most of his shots from the elbow, ceding the low post to tim duncan.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

MJ was at his peak during those years.

Athletically, sure. The team and him as a complete player? yeah right


And Tim Duncan brought SA championships. He was the 2nd option on the first team and a role player on the 2nd.

I'm not saying Pat is better, but he is every bit as equal


thats exacrly what im trying to say Duncan brought those rings to San Antonio. During the mid 90s where Pat and the Admiral were both at their primes, Patand his Knicks were having more success than David and the Spurs. In no way is David better than Pat. And Pat aways stepped up when needed while Admiral wasgetting #+$@@++ come playoff time by Hakeem in the 90s. Man i think that you dont know the facts here, al off your arguments were from the late 90s/milleniumand the team that won was Duncan's team. If you knew the 90s you would know who was having more success in both of their primes and that was Pat. And ofcourse i know about the Pistons,what i meant was during the Bulls dynasty, when they had the best teams that they had along with MJ, they had Pip, Rodman,Kucoc, etc. as well. If you remember Rodman was on the Pistons when they beat the Bulls. But during those dynasty years, no one played the Bulls like theKnicks did. Get on your facts son, your arguments are wack and you are basically restating the smae +*@* that i keep arguing.

 

[nnarum]

Kevin Garnett, and another reason I hate the Lakers even more

 

[indohan]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

Originally Posted by allen3xis

MJ was at his peak during those years.

Athletically, sure. The team and him as a complete player? yeah right


And Tim Duncan brought SA championships. He was the 2nd option on the first team and a role player on the 2nd.

I'm not saying Pat is better, but he is every bit as equal

thats exacrly what im trying to say Duncan brought those rings to San Antonio. During the mid 90s where Pat and the Admiral were both at their primes, Pat and his Knicks were having more success than David and the Spurs. In no way is David better than Pat. And Pat aways stepped up when needed while Admiral was getting #+$@@++ come playoff time by Hakeem in the 90s. Man i think that you dont know the facts here, al off your arguments were from the late 90s/millenium and the team that won was Duncan's team. If you knew the 90s you would know who was having more success in both of their primes and that was Pat. And of course i know about the Pistons,what i meant was during the Bulls dynasty, when they had the best teams that they had along with MJ, they had Pip, Rodman, Kucoc, etc. as well. If you remember Rodman was on the Pistons when they beat the Bulls. But during those dynasty years, no one played the Bulls like the Knicks did. Get on your facts son, your arguments are wack and you are basically restating the smae +*@* that i keep arguing.


1. David Robinson and Tim Duncan brought those rings to San Antonio.

2. David Robinson was dominated (in your language, it's called "owned") by Hakeem Olajuwon for ONE SINGLE game, coincidentally, in David's MVP year.
If you want to argue that Knicks didn't get the ring because of Stark's off night, Robinson was dominated by Hakeem because he had an off night.
Patrick stepped up whenever is needed. Hmm... Interesting.. I must have made a mistake if I thought that David scored 71 and led the league in blocks...

3. If I know the 90s, I would break this down to you one by one:

NBA FINALS: Patrick Ewing: 1-0; David Robinson: 1-1

Patrick's opponent: MJ (Needless to say), Shaq (didn't win the ring), Alonzo (same type of center, didn't win a ring back then).
David's opponent: Magic Johnson, Hakeem-Drexler, Stockton-Malone duo (they both came back to Finals back-to-back, shows how good they were).

MVP: Patrick Ewing: 0, David Robinson 1.

And Tim Duncan brought SA championships. He was the 2nd option on the first team and a role player on the 2nd.
THE GR8, You seriously think you really understand what was going on? TD was a rookie. He was the 2nd option for the first team, ask allen3xis whowas the first option?
You seriously think that a person who was the first center option for the team, did not play a big part for the championship?

You still believe what you said, "David Obviously is not that important to the team", is correct?

If you seriously thought that TD gave David the rings, I guess one of TD's rings was given by Tony Parker.

BS? That's what you were saying.

---

Seriously, I'm too tired to argue with you. I salute your NY pride. If you think that Patrick Ewing is the best center that ever lived, go on with it!I'll just

Ok! We have a winner! Patrick Ewing is the best center of all time..

 

[nitzski]

Why do y'all even respond to this Indohan dude? He clearly knows nothing about Basketball.

His "logic" is some of the most ridiculous I've EVER heard in life on any subject...

 

[allen3xis]

Uhmm, first of you quoted me

and that wasn't Duncan's rookie year.....

and Duncan was clearly the first option, and that was his team.

He put up 22 and 11

Robinson 16 and 10



not even about the stats though...It was Duncan's team, clearly

 

[japanair21]

Now: Iverson/KG

All-Time: Charles Barkley, Stockton, or Ewing. Ewing had 9 straight season with 20/10. Charles had 11 seasons with 20/10, and 15 of his 16 seasons 10+ reboundsa game. Stockton the best PG ever in my eyes, and one of the most durable players ever, 16 seasons where he played ALL 82 games, 9 seasons with 10+ ppg, 10+apg, and 2 steals a game.

 

[nnarum]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

Uhmm, first of you quoted me

and that wasn't Duncan's rookie year.....

and Duncan was clearly the first option, and that was his team.

He put up 22 and 11

Robinson 16 and 10



not even about the stats though...It was Duncan's team, clearly

The year before the Spurs tanked it because they knew they had a good chance at Duncan. Duncan is a beast.

 

[japanair21]

I change my vote from Iverson/KG to Hedo, without a doubt.