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No no, you're mistaking the pathetic offense of the NCAA for good defense. The "5 Passes at the Top of the Key for 30 Seconds Then Take a Bad Shot" strategy.
The College Basketball Post
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by allen3xis,
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The ncaa and NBA have nothing to do with each other. You're mistaking hard fouls and missed shots for good defense in the NBA. Watch a jump shot in the NBA, it's usually wide open. Layups and dunks are only contested by teams that don't like each other.
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I know this is an old quote but I wanted to comment on it from multiple angles.
I think over the years, Cuse players have been overhyped. When you look around the NBA, who from SU besides Melo is doing anything of note? Waiters has been solid (on a terrible team). And so has MCW (though I'm still not sold on him). But in recent years there have been more busts than anything else from a school that is supposed to be top tier and able to attract blue chip prospects. Donte Greene? Wes Johnson? Fab? Jonny Flynn? They were all high draft picks who are already out of the L or have one foot out. And now Ennis and Grant are being touted as mid first round draft picks? :x
I don't see it. Ennis isn't ready and Jerami definitely isn't either.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Syracuse is supposed to be a major univerisity but seems to churn out less than major talent. Or more specifically, majorly overhped talent. Am I wrong or too harsh in that assessment? Should the blame land at Boeheim's feet for his blue chippers regressing under his watch? Or maybe for not better preparing his players for the NBA? Or is there another reason for why so many SU players seem to fizzle when they reach the L? Like, they aren't even solid contributors off the bench in the pros.
Secondly, I love what Boeheim has done for the program and even for USA Basketball. But as Gunna in the above quote, Rook in previous posts, and others have pointed out, Jim really needs to attack on D a little more. Charles Barkley summed it up well when he said that other teams have it easy because Syracuse will pretty much only apply pressure when they are behind by a lot or down late in a game. Teams don't usually have to worry about turning the ball over. The zone only forces tougher shots. And if a team gets hot, SU can get into trouble. Boeheim to an extent keeps lesser opponents in the game with the zone. I'm not saying Jim or the zone should go. But he needs to tweak his philosophy a bit IMO.
Sorry for the rant and lengthy post. Looking to spark some solid chat and opinions.
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This _ Awwsome must have popped Molly with a 5 hour energy cause he was on a roll last night 
That Wildcat train stops Saturday night. Wisky got the ratchets to beat them.
And it's Husky Nation in NYC this weekend. We outchea!!!!
That Wildcat train stops Saturday night. Wisky got the ratchets to beat them.
And it's Husky Nation in NYC this weekend. We outchea!!!!
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Kentucky isn't the same team that beat Louisville in December either.
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Couple things are clear to me.
1. Jim Boeheim is 70, he ain't tweaking ****. So cuse fans are just going to have to live with it.
2. Nobody wants to fire a legend, its pretty clear he's going to die on that sideline.
3. You could say the same thing about Duke in recent years before they started going after one and done's.
4. The zone giveth and the zone taketh away.
Some down years at Syracuse have been helped because of that Zone, no way, ****ey and Ennis would be as effective on d if they were playing man to man, in fact they generated a good amount of turnovers out of the zone because of ****ey and Ennis ability to anticipate.
No coach does this, you don't really recruit the cream of the crop high school prospect, so I don't what you expect. Most of your draft picks have upperclassmen so they are fraught with more risk when your translating through the draft.
1. Jim Boeheim is 70, he ain't tweaking ****. So cuse fans are just going to have to live with it.
2. Nobody wants to fire a legend, its pretty clear he's going to die on that sideline.
3. You could say the same thing about Duke in recent years before they started going after one and done's.
4. The zone giveth and the zone taketh away.
Some down years at Syracuse have been helped because of that Zone, no way, ****ey and Ennis would be as effective on d if they were playing man to man, in fact they generated a good amount of turnovers out of the zone because of ****ey and Ennis ability to anticipate.
No coach does this, you don't really recruit the cream of the crop high school prospect, so I don't what you expect. Most of your draft picks have upperclassmen so they are fraught with more risk when your translating through the draft.
mr marcus
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not to bring in bracket talk but I got wisky over zona....I know they can do it..
but Bo better not pull a Bo
but Bo better not pull a Bo
dacomeup
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Shuges, I think the answer to your question is that Syracuse has had a lot of overhyped prospects. We call All-American talent "blue chips", but out of all the blue chips that Cuse had brought in, how many have been can't miss talents? Melo and....? You can go down the line of Cuse guys and see major flaws, from Wes, to Fab Melo, to Dajuan Coleman, to Donte Greene. All of these guys could be picked a part, AA or not.
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AG's defense in the 2nd half 
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What does Duke have to do with Syracuse tho? Y'all keep Duke in your mouth more than the actual fans.
aepps20
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The top teams in the league play outstanding defense, especially in the playoffs.
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People stay taking shots at Duke
Battier, Brand, Boozer, Deng, Dunleavy, Henderson, Redick, Kyrie, Plumlees, etc .. not everyone I mentioned is a star but they all found ways to contribute & stick around in the league. Can't say the same about Syracuse outside of Melo and possibly MCW.
Battier, Brand, Boozer, Deng, Dunleavy, Henderson, Redick, Kyrie, Plumlees, etc .. not everyone I mentioned is a star but they all found ways to contribute & stick around in the league. Can't say the same about Syracuse outside of Melo and possibly MCW.
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Also If you exclude the cream of the crop top 3 guys, the difference between the McDAA team and the next 24 prospects is minuscule.
dacomeup
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Hakim Warrick had a long stint in the league.
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Other college coaches have said they find it easy to play cuse because they already know what cuse is going to do. It wouldn't hurt if they went man to man once in a while just to shake things up and keep their opponent from knowing what defense they'll see 100% of the time.
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im not even sure what that means
if anything they've overachieved in the regular season since hes been there...they've never had the talent to make a deep run in the tournament until now...people just throwing shade at Bo for no reason..700+ wins, 3 conference championships, 13 straight tourney appearances all due to his X's and O's and player development..and up until the past year or so hes done it without any high level recruits to speak of...its incredible really..then last year Dekker shows up and this year Koenig turns down UNC + Duke to stay home and play for him...couple talent with his coaching ability and you see where its gotten them this season...
and Zona aint running **** into the ground...Badgers are WAY too disciplined on both ends of the court for that
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*Looks at avy
Oh.....
& if Zona doesn't run Wisconsin into the ground it will be more of a function of coaching than anything. It doesn't have anything to do with Wisconsin's discipline, it has everything to do with Zona's defense and athleticism in the open court.
I respect Bo Ryan as an offensive coach, that's it.
Oh.....
& if Zona doesn't run Wisconsin into the ground it will be more of a function of coaching than anything. It doesn't have anything to do with Wisconsin's discipline, it has everything to do with Zona's defense and athleticism in the open court.
I respect Bo Ryan as an offensive coach, that's it.
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Oh you must be right about everything because I happen to be a Badger fan
Didn't know you were a college basketball god
All i posted were facts about the team, nothing more nothing less..i must be a homer though
Didn't know you were a college basketball god
All i posted were facts about the team, nothing more nothing less..i must be a homer though
You realize that makes no sense whatsoever..a team's discipline isnt a function of their coaching?
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Thanks OKB for the detailed post. I'll address your points in order:
1. Agreed. No coach will change at an ad*****d age. But if you get a new AD who insists on a new philosophy....
2. ... then your coach could be forced out.
3. I completely disagree. Look at this website: http://dukeblueplanet.com/inthenba
For those unable to view the link, it lists current Duke players in the NBA. Kyrie, Boozer, Deng, Redick, Plumlee brothers, Battier, Austin Rivers, Brand, Dunleavy, and more. Those guys are all key or were key contributors to their teams. That's a much, much better track record than SU.
4. Again, I said that the zone should stay but Jim can at least surprise the opponent with man or a press in some situations. The zone definitely hides individual deficiencies on D. So I'd prefer to keep it around.
5. Your answer still doesn't address why SU players struggle in the NBA as compared to other programs such as Duke or UNC (it can be argued that Danny Green and Ty Lawson are not better than say Wes Johnson and Jonny Flynn yet they have found big roles on playoff bound teams) or Zona (Derrick Williams, Channing Frye, Richard Jeff, Iggy, Bayless, Jordan Hill).
1. Agreed. No coach will change at an ad*****d age. But if you get a new AD who insists on a new philosophy....
2. ... then your coach could be forced out.
3. I completely disagree. Look at this website: http://dukeblueplanet.com/inthenba
For those unable to view the link, it lists current Duke players in the NBA. Kyrie, Boozer, Deng, Redick, Plumlee brothers, Battier, Austin Rivers, Brand, Dunleavy, and more. Those guys are all key or were key contributors to their teams. That's a much, much better track record than SU.
4. Again, I said that the zone should stay but Jim can at least surprise the opponent with man or a press in some situations. The zone definitely hides individual deficiencies on D. So I'd prefer to keep it around.
5. Your answer still doesn't address why SU players struggle in the NBA as compared to other programs such as Duke or UNC (it can be argued that Danny Green and Ty Lawson are not better than say Wes Johnson and Jonny Flynn yet they have found big roles on playoff bound teams) or Zona (Derrick Williams, Channing Frye, Richard Jeff, Iggy, Bayless, Jordan Hill).
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Exactly!People stay taking shots at Duke
Battier, Brand, Boozer, Deng, Dunleavy, Henderson, Redick, Kyrie, Plumlees, etc .. not everyone I mentioned is a star but they all found ways to contribute & stick around in the league. Can't say the same about Syracuse outside of Melo and possibly MCW.
You can't say that the players Syracuse brings in don't have good to great talent/potential compared to Duke. Yet the Duke guys always find a way to stick around and do work in the L. Could be coaching. Could be academics. But there's no way that a Donte Greene should be out of the L already or that a CJ Fair won't even get drafted. This needs to be reviewed a little more closely on Boeheim's part.
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never thought JJ Redick would've lasted longer in the NBA than Salim
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Do you work in the PR department at Wisconsin? It's like you carry note cards around with Bo Ryan "neat facts" and they giving you commission for every name drop.
I actually wanted Wisky to go far and consider Bo Ryan an elite coach but if I didn't hate Arizona fans so much I'd root Wisky to get that back blown out tomorrow.
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You enroll at Mercer yet?
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You misread that, I didn't say discipline isn't a function of coaching, I said that the "discipline" is overrated in comparison to Zona's defense and athleticism. It depends on how aggressive Miller wants to be because Wisconsin can't keep up with Zona's guys in the open court if they were to press consistently.
I never said they weren't disciplined but does that matter when y'all have struggled against teams with good defense and more athleticism all year?
If Virginia, Ohio State and Northwestern can put the clamps on you, you think Zona can't?
If so, God bless.
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