The most powerful production V8 in the world

[mplsdunk]

Originally Posted by dbailey86

waste of money ZR1>stang

in that case carrera gt> toyota supra

 

[thegame2006]

HEMI>*

 

[myjaysgetrocked]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by ninjahood



Oh you mean da same m5 that got embarrassed by da CTS-V?

Really? We are going to include a $144,000 M5 in this discussion?

http://www.autoblog.com/2...mw-m5-shots-hit-the-web/

so they FINALLY made a M5 that can take down a CTS-V? OK THEN anytime cadillac wants and which they eventually will within the next year or two they will make the V that will destroy the "new" M5.

Let's see, the previous generation CTS-V came out in 04. Which was a year AFTER the final production year for the  E39, in which the E39 was still faster. Then, the E60 came out in 06, and the CTS-V couldn't hold a candle to it. In 09- the new V comes out, and is faster around the ring and from a dig but still slower in a highway race. The new F10 is a whole lot quicker than the E60, and will be much faster than the CTS-V. Then Cadillac will come up with something similar or faster. It's a continuous cycle...
I appreciate american cars, especially the new CTS-V's but to sit here and act like the M5 hasn't been the benchmark for 4 door performance sedans is ridiculous....  

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Originally Posted by cguy610

Really? We are going to include a $144,000 M5 in this discussion?

http://www.autoblog.com/2...mw-m5-shots-hit-the-web/

so they FINALLY made a M5 that can take down a CTS-V? OK THEN anytime cadillac wants and which they eventually will within the next year or two they will make the V that will destroy the "new" M5.

Let's see, the previous generation CTS-V came out in 04. Which was a year AFTER the final production year for the  E39, in which the E39 was still faster. Then, the E60 came out in 06, and the CTS-V couldn't hold a candle to it. In 09- the new V comes out, and is faster around the ring and from a dig but still slower in a highway race. The new F10 is a whole lot quicker than the E60, and will be much faster than the CTS-V. Then Cadillac will come up with something similar or faster. It's a continuous cycle...
I appreciate american cars, especially the new CTS-V's but to sit here and act like the M5 hasn't been the benchmark for 4 door performance sedans is ridiculous....  

With the price tag difference between the V and M5 it better be a faster car. That's the biggest thing with American car performance, bang for the buck. Yeah the M5 is faster but you can pick up a brand new CTS-V and one of the new Shelby GT500's or the Camaro ZL1 for the price of one brand new M5. I love the new M5, beautiful design and its up there with the E39 M5 for my favorite M5 but the price is ridiculous. $144K.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by jhobson5

Zyzz wrote:

---

MPLSdunk wrote:

---

nt car threads are jokes. like 3 people in here actually know something.

its a joke because everyone slobbers all over BMW's like they are the greatest cars ever made and everyone just bashes on american cars when they dont know a damn thing.

i knew i was gonna get 98% hate when i made this thread but eh i didnt care.



   Thats way I try to stay out of the thread. Most people on NT are in BMW's and the import scene. I am all about American Muscle you cant beat it. This mustang is nice. I cant believe ford was able to push the hp up 100. I am a Camaro guy myself so I am hoping the ZL1 that is coming out can compete with this.  


Go as fast as supercars & yet pay dirt cheap in comparison for MSRP & maintenance...how can you go wrongWith muscle cars?

 

[atsymbol]

http://www.evo.co.uk/carr...ar_stype_r_v_bmw_m5.html

If we're talking about 4 door saloons, above is a link to a long read, but worth it! (9 years out of date, but interesting none the less)

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

People who care about performance more often than not are purists when it comes to driving. If you've ever been to an HPDE you would see that a large majority of the cars that go are MT. You cite Porsche as moving towards dual clutch technologies but you also state how the GT3 RS is one of your favorite cars. In fact its quite the contrary in their most driver oriented cars. The 911 turbo is no longer the choice drivers Porsche, the GT3 and GT2 with their respective RS counterparts have taken their place. A quick browsing of Rennlist would show you that a large percentage of owners prefer keeping them MT rather than going with Porsche's PDK setup.
There's a hill climb in Virginia City, the Spectre 341 challenge. The car with the fastest time to date is a Ferrari F40. The fastest time this year was with a Corvette ZR1. Both these cars have a manual transmission, and both beat out cars with more aids (Stillen GT-R), because at the end of the day it all comes down to drivers skill. So much for drivers not being able to keep up with computers. Same in time attack unlimited class. FX Motorsport, Sierra Sierra, HKS, and the Cyber Evo all run manual transmissions beating cars that run sequentials. Rhys Millen for the Pike's Peak hillclimb actually switched from his paddle shifter setup to a manual trans and ran a faster time. The fastest cars in the 2wd and 4wd classes were all manual trans. Rod Millen driving his sons Formula D Genesis and Jeff Zwart piloting a GT2 RS. I'd like to think these people are race drivers and people who care about performance.

For the most part though most racing bodies are going to the sequential setups to get that millisecond edge, however drivers who get paid by teams to race differ from the enthusiast purchasing the car. The enthusiast will want to be able to take his car on the track but still have fun with the car and for some that can only be had with a manual trans, I doubt manuals get phased out on performance cars anytime soon.

For the record traction control and abs isn't a traditional drivers skill

I agree completely with what you said. There is a difference between people hunting for the lowest times and people looking for a great experience.

Of course computers will never offer the personal control a non-computerized car offers. But still, automatic transmissions are offering lower shift times, launch control is putting out better acceleration times and computer systems like the GTR allow for extremely good performance without much driver effort.

Assists might not be needed but drivers want faster shift times and more control of their car. I'm not saying that computers are automatically better than drivers, but they make performance driving much easier for those who aren't top of the line racers. Also, the highest spec performance cars like the Ferrari 599XX, GTO, Lamborghini Aventador, Koenigsegg Agera, Bugatti Veyron all have sequential transmissions. They yield better numbers and times on paper, whether or not that's true in terms of driver's experience.

I still think manuals will be phased out. Ferrari doesn't offer the manual in the 458 or the FF, Lamborghini with the Aventador and the Gallardo replacement, Porsche is rumored to drop the 6MT in their GT3 and GT2 and replace it with their PDK. These transmissions can give out better times on paper and in addition, most of their customers don't even know how to drive manual. Nearly all Lamborghinis sold are E-Gear. The companies are reluctant to offer manuals when such a small percentage use them.

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Originally Posted by Zyzz

so they FINALLY made a M5 that can take down a CTS-V? OK THEN anytime cadillac wants and which they eventually will within the next year or two they will make the V that will destroy the "new" M5.

Let's see, the previous generation CTS-V came out in 04. Which was a year AFTER the final production year for the  E39, in which the E39 was still faster. Then, the E60 came out in 06, and the CTS-V couldn't hold a candle to it. In 09- the new V comes out, and is faster around the ring and from a dig but still slower in a highway race. The new F10 is a whole lot quicker than the E60, and will be much faster than the CTS-V. Then Cadillac will come up with something similar or faster. It's a continuous cycle...
I appreciate american cars, especially the new CTS-V's but to sit here and act like the M5 hasn't been the benchmark for 4 door performance sedans is ridiculous....  

With the price tag difference between the V and M5 it better be a faster car. That's the biggest thing with American car performance, bang for the buck. Yeah the M5 is faster but you can pick up a brand new CTS-V and one of the new Shelby GT500's or the Camaro ZL1 for the price of one brand new M5. I love the new M5, beautiful design and its up there with the E39 M5 for my favorite M5 but the price is ridiculous. $144K.

...The price is speculated to be around $95k... IDK where $144k came from.


....It's all talk right now though, nothing official

 

[mases apprentice]

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

 

[airphilippines]

Originally Posted by scshift

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

People who care about performance more often than not are purists when it comes to driving. If you've ever been to an HPDE you would see that a large majority of the cars that go are MT. You cite Porsche as moving towards dual clutch technologies but you also state how the GT3 RS is one of your favorite cars. In fact its quite the contrary in their most driver oriented cars. The 911 turbo is no longer the choice drivers Porsche, the GT3 and GT2 with their respective RS counterparts have taken their place. A quick browsing of Rennlist would show you that a large percentage of owners prefer keeping them MT rather than going with Porsche's PDK setup.
There's a hill climb in Virginia City, the Spectre 341 challenge. The car with the fastest time to date is a Ferrari F40. The fastest time this year was with a Corvette ZR1. Both these cars have a manual transmission, and both beat out cars with more aids (Stillen GT-R), because at the end of the day it all comes down to drivers skill. So much for drivers not being able to keep up with computers. Same in time attack unlimited class. FX Motorsport, Sierra Sierra, HKS, and the Cyber Evo all run manual transmissions beating cars that run sequentials. Rhys Millen for the Pike's Peak hillclimb actually switched from his paddle shifter setup to a manual trans and ran a faster time. The fastest cars in the 2wd and 4wd classes were all manual trans. Rod Millen driving his sons Formula D Genesis and Jeff Zwart piloting a GT2 RS. I'd like to think these people are race drivers and people who care about performance.

For the most part though most racing bodies are going to the sequential setups to get that millisecond edge, however drivers who get paid by teams to race differ from the enthusiast purchasing the car. The enthusiast will want to be able to take his car on the track but still have fun with the car and for some that can only be had with a manual trans, I doubt manuals get phased out on performance cars anytime soon.

For the record traction control and abs isn't a traditional drivers skill

I agree completely with what you said. There is a difference between people hunting for the lowest times and people looking for a great experience.

Of course computers will never offer the personal control a non-computerized car offers. But still, automatic transmissions are offering lower shift times, launch control is putting out better acceleration times and computer systems like the GTR allow for extremely good performance without much driver effort.

Assists might not be needed but drivers want faster shift times and more control of their car. I'm not saying that computers are automatically better than drivers, but they make performance driving much easier for those who aren't top of the line racers. Also, the highest spec performance cars like the Ferrari 599XX, GTO, Lamborghini Aventador, Koenigsegg Agera, Bugatti Veyron all have sequential transmissions. They yield better numbers and times on paper, whether or not that's true in terms of driver's experience.

I still think manuals will be phased out. Ferrari doesn't offer the manual in the 458 or the FF, Lamborghini with the Aventador and the Gallardo replacement, Porsche is rumored to drop the 6MT in their GT3 and GT2 and replace it with their PDK. These transmissions can give out better times on paper and in addition, most of their customers don't even know how to drive manual. Nearly all Lamborghinis sold are E-Gear. The companies are reluctant to offer manuals when such a small percentage use them.

I think this is a rather naive statement. If Porsche is rumored to drop their manual trans why did they even bother introducing their new 7 speed manual? If companies will be dropping it why are cars such as ZR1, Z06, Evo (excluding SE and MR), STi, Boss 302, Viper, Shelby GT500, GT2/3 and RS counterparts still available as only manual?

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Let's see, the previous generation CTS-V came out in 04. Which was a year AFTER the final production year for the  E39, in which the E39 was still faster. Then, the E60 came out in 06, and the CTS-V couldn't hold a candle to it. In 09- the new V comes out, and is faster around the ring and from a dig but still slower in a highway race. The new F10 is a whole lot quicker than the E60, and will be much faster than the CTS-V. Then Cadillac will come up with something similar or faster. It's a continuous cycle...
I appreciate american cars, especially the new CTS-V's but to sit here and act like the M5 hasn't been the benchmark for 4 door performance sedans is ridiculous....  

With the price tag difference between the V and M5 it better be a faster car. That's the biggest thing with American car performance, bang for the buck. Yeah the M5 is faster but you can pick up a brand new CTS-V and one of the new Shelby GT500's or the Camaro ZL1 for the price of one brand new M5. I love the new M5, beautiful design and its up there with the E39 M5 for my favorite M5 but the price is ridiculous. $144K.

...The price is speculated to be around $95k... IDK where $144k came from.


....It's all talk right now though, nothing official

I was going with the price cguy610 wrote. Just clicked the link and said its 100,000 euros and after exchange rates comes out to $144,000 US. Said US price probably won't be that high due to the VAT Europe has.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by scshift

Companies like Lotus and Porsche are more driver-oriented but they too are starting to turn towards dual clutch transmissions and other technologies because they know drivers can't keep up with computers. They're all out for better performance in the end.

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

Originally Posted by scshift

I still think manuals will be phased out. Ferrari doesn't offer the manual in the 458 or the FF, Lamborghini with the Aventador and the Gallardo replacement, Porsche is rumored to drop the 6MT in their GT3 and GT2 and replace it with their PDK. These transmissions can give out better times on paper and in addition, most of their customers don't even know how to drive manual. Nearly all Lamborghinis sold are E-Gear. The companies are reluctant to offer manuals when such a small percentage use them.

I think this is a rather naive statement. If Porsche is rumored to drop their manual trans why did they even bother introducing their new 7 speed manual? If companies will be dropping it why are cars such as ZR1, Z06, Evo (excluding SE and MR), STi, Boss 302, Viper, Shelby GT500, GT2/3 and RS counterparts still available as only manual?



http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1109_interview_with_porsche_ceo_matthias_muller/

[h1]http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/09/23/porsche-will-offer-manual-as-long-as-their-is-demand/

http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/09/23/porsche-will-offer-manual-as-long-as-their-is-demand/
http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/09/23/porsche-will-offer-manual-as-long-as-their-is-demand/[h1]http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/09/23/porsche-will-offer-manual-as-long-as-their-is-demand/Porsche will keep offering a manual transmission as long as customer’s demand it[/h1]

Indeed, if you look at Porsche's claimed PERFORMANCE and efficiency numbers, the PDK is clearly the higher-performance transmission of the two -- both the Carrera and Carrera S models with the PDK are quicker to 60 mph and more fuel efficient than the stick-shift equipped versions. But as long as the customer asks for it, says Muller, PORSCHE will build a stick-shift 911. The next GT3, he says, will not have a PDK transmission.

[/h1]

 

[mases apprentice]

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

I think this is a rather naive statement. If Porsche is rumored to drop their manual trans why did they even bother introducing their new 7 speed manual? If companies will be dropping it why are cars such as ZR1, Z06, Evo (excluding SE and MR), STi, Boss 302, Viper, Shelby GT500, GT2/3 and RS counterparts still available as only manual?

Evo X MR only comes in a SST Dual Clutch. and the GT3 will be getting PDK. 

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

At least post a picture of a newer 2010+ interior. This looks like a 2007 GT500. Materials have been much improved on the new 2010+ generation of Mustangs.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

Its called retro inspired...

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

Its called retro inspired...

Why the hell would anyone want a "retro inspired" interior?

save that for the exterior...

 

[airphilippines]

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

I think this is a rather naive statement. If Porsche is rumored to drop their manual trans why did they even bother introducing their new 7 speed manual? If companies will be dropping it why are cars such as ZR1, Z06, Evo (excluding SE and MR), STi, Boss 302, Viper, Shelby GT500, GT2/3 and RS counterparts still available as only manual?

Evo X MR only comes in a SST Dual Clutch. and the GT3 will be getting PDK. 



Look at the post above you from RFX. Note the bolded portion in my post

 

[memphissfinest]

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

SMH.

YOU'VE MISSED THE BOAT ON WHY A MUSCLE CAR IS A MUSCLE CAR.

AND YES. DO WANT. I'LL TAKE THAT GT500 IN A HEARTBEAT. NOT A SINGLE DAMN GIVEN.

  

 

[Bert.]

thats the interior in the ugly old gt500's

worth looking mustangs every built.

the interior in the 2010 and up are nice.

 

[Bert.]

more pics

 

[mases apprentice]

omg you guys act like it changed dramatically. 

vs

This is why i think american cars suck.

a mustang is fast.... but that is all it does! 60k dollars for a live rear axle, horrible interior, and no mouth dropping exterior.

if its not a corvette. its trash. cst-v gets a pass. even though im not a fan. Jeeps also get a pass.

 

[mases apprentice]

dbl post

 

[k town trash]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by mases apprentice

Some people do car about how their car drives, their interior, and how they look stock.

american companies just dont do it.

Come on.... thats disgusting. Live rear axle i bet?

Its called retro inspired...

Why the hell would anyone want a "retro inspired" interior?

save that for the exterior...

exactly. making a "retro inspired" interior makes car look outdated.  

 

[milestailsprowe]

Originally Posted by mases apprentice


omg you guys act like it changed dramatically. 

vs

This is why i think american cars suck.

a mustang is fast.... but that is all it does! 60k dollars for a live rear axle, horrible interior, and no mouth dropping exterior.

if its not a corvette. its trash. cst-v gets a pass. even though im not a fan. Jeeps also get a pass.

I find it funny that I prefer the simple look of the Mustang. Why are you comparing a luxury car which is pull is the comforts of said interior vs a Mustang which pull is speed/nostalgia?

 

[odog24]

the main focus of making the mustang/boss302/gt500 is not making a nice interior to compete with bmw and mercs the market they are selling
to dont give a *&%^ about interior.
thats why their main focus is just horsepower and torque. the people that buy this car buy it for these reasons.


dont compare the interior of a ford with a bmw it just doesnt make sense. compare it to dodge or chevy if you wanna compare it

and i dont think manuals will completely phased out but they will be decreasing.
kinda similar to how apple still makes those old *** ipods with the click wheel its not innovating or anything but people will still buy it.

idk if that makes ^ but whatever