The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[Bert.]

Originally Posted by CAto312

@WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Several agents tell Y! Sports they have 200-plus player signatures for union decertification petition and paperwork could be filed Friday.

Hmmm.....

decertification is pretty stupid IMO if it happens doesnt it mean no basketball for quite a long time? unless all the smart people at realgm are wrong but im guessing they are right when talking about the subject.

 

[Bert.]

Originally Posted by CAto312

@WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Several agents tell Y! Sports they have 200-plus player signatures for union decertification petition and paperwork could be filed Friday.

Hmmm.....

decertification is pretty stupid IMO if it happens doesnt it mean no basketball for quite a long time? unless all the smart people at realgm are wrong but im guessing they are right when talking about the subject.

 

[cato312]

@WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
For players, start of the decert process doesn't preclude them from agreeing to owners proposal next week. Yet it does give them options.

We'll have to see what happens...this waiting game is $@%!%!@ with my emotions.

 

[cato312]

@WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
For players, start of the decert process doesn't preclude them from agreeing to owners proposal next week. Yet it does give them options.

We'll have to see what happens...this waiting game is $@%!%!@ with my emotions.

 

[pmatic]

All about the system: Players detail where sides stand on issues

"The current offer on the table from the NBA is one that we cannot accept."

Those words, spoken by union president Derek Fisher after a players meeting in New York on Tuesday, were intended to send a clear message to commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver and the NBA's 30 owners: Players will not be bullied into accepting what they have deemed an unfair offer.

But what about that offer? Internally, the players have made it clear that if the owners are willing to work with them on the system issues, they would be willing to make concessions when it comes to the split of basketball-related income. But those system issues have proved to be difficult to navigate.

With Stern's Wednesday deadline looming for the union to accept the league's offer or face a harsher proposal, here is a look at where the sides stand on many of the issues, according to multiple players briefed on the proposal:
[h3]Common Ground[/h3]
• The "Super Tax": Both the players and owners have agreed, in part, on a punitive tax for teams that exceed the luxury-tax threshold. For every dollar -- up to $5 million -- that a team goes over the limit, it pays a $1.50 tax. In the previous CBA, it was dollar for dollar. Moreover, the two sides have agreed that the tax will get incrementally larger every $5 million.

• The Larry Bird exception: Both sides have agreed that the Bird exception -- a provision that allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents -- will remain the same.

• Length of player contracts: Previously, a team could sign its own free agent for six years and an outside free agent for five. The players have agreed to reduce those numbers to five and four.

• Minimum team salary: The minimum team salary must be 85 percent of the salary cap.

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

• Injury exception: In the event of a season-ending injury, a team will be given a one-year, $5 million exception to replace an injured player.

• Restricted free agency: A team will have three days to match offers on restricted free agents. Previously, a team had seven.

• "Stretch" contracts: Teams may waive players and stretch the payments of the guaranteed money over a period two times the remaining years plus one.
[h3]Battle Ground[/h3]
• Luxury tax: Two key issues remain in dispute:

A. The NBA has proposed that if a team goes into the luxury tax more than three out of every five years, it will be hit with an extra $1 penalty tax in addition to what it is paying in the super tax.

B. If a team breaks the tax threshold by $1, it forfeits its share of the tax money. Put simply, only non-taxpayers get any money back

The union opposes both provisions for the same reason: It discourages teams from going into the luxury tax.

• Mid-level exception: As the NBA has stated, the two sides have agreed to reduce the mid-level exception from $5.8 million to $5 million. However, the NBA wants any team that uses the mid-level to be limited to three-year deals. If a team is paying the luxury tax, the NBA's proposal calls for that team to lose the full mid-level and be limited to a smaller, $2.5 million exception. The players believe this both hurts the middle class and discourages teams from spending into the luxury tax.

• Qualifying offers: Players want more lucrative offers. Ownership wants them to stay the same.

• Escrow: The NBA is seeking escrow protection -- believed to be 10 percent -- which would, in essence, guarantee the league hits its target BRI number. Players have offered to increase the escrow to a band of 8-10 percent.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.

• Trade exceptions: The players want them increased. The NBA wants them to stay the same.

• Rookie contracts: While the rookie wage scale would stay the same, the union has pushed for incentivizing contracts to give elite rookies the opportunity to make more money quicker.

• Annual raises: Under the terms of the last CBA, players with Bird rights were entitled to 10.5 percent raises and everyone else could receive 8.5 percent. The union has offered to reduce those raises to 7.5 percent/6.5 percent while the NBA's offer was 5.5 percent/3 percent.

• Salary-cap holds: The union wants them lower. The NBA wants them to stay the same.

Link

 

[pmatic]

All about the system: Players detail where sides stand on issues

"The current offer on the table from the NBA is one that we cannot accept."

Those words, spoken by union president Derek Fisher after a players meeting in New York on Tuesday, were intended to send a clear message to commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver and the NBA's 30 owners: Players will not be bullied into accepting what they have deemed an unfair offer.

But what about that offer? Internally, the players have made it clear that if the owners are willing to work with them on the system issues, they would be willing to make concessions when it comes to the split of basketball-related income. But those system issues have proved to be difficult to navigate.

With Stern's Wednesday deadline looming for the union to accept the league's offer or face a harsher proposal, here is a look at where the sides stand on many of the issues, according to multiple players briefed on the proposal:
[h3]Common Ground[/h3]
• The "Super Tax": Both the players and owners have agreed, in part, on a punitive tax for teams that exceed the luxury-tax threshold. For every dollar -- up to $5 million -- that a team goes over the limit, it pays a $1.50 tax. In the previous CBA, it was dollar for dollar. Moreover, the two sides have agreed that the tax will get incrementally larger every $5 million.

• The Larry Bird exception: Both sides have agreed that the Bird exception -- a provision that allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents -- will remain the same.

• Length of player contracts: Previously, a team could sign its own free agent for six years and an outside free agent for five. The players have agreed to reduce those numbers to five and four.

• Minimum team salary: The minimum team salary must be 85 percent of the salary cap.

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

• Injury exception: In the event of a season-ending injury, a team will be given a one-year, $5 million exception to replace an injured player.

• Restricted free agency: A team will have three days to match offers on restricted free agents. Previously, a team had seven.

• "Stretch" contracts: Teams may waive players and stretch the payments of the guaranteed money over a period two times the remaining years plus one.
[h3]Battle Ground[/h3]
• Luxury tax: Two key issues remain in dispute:

A. The NBA has proposed that if a team goes into the luxury tax more than three out of every five years, it will be hit with an extra $1 penalty tax in addition to what it is paying in the super tax.

B. If a team breaks the tax threshold by $1, it forfeits its share of the tax money. Put simply, only non-taxpayers get any money back

The union opposes both provisions for the same reason: It discourages teams from going into the luxury tax.

• Mid-level exception: As the NBA has stated, the two sides have agreed to reduce the mid-level exception from $5.8 million to $5 million. However, the NBA wants any team that uses the mid-level to be limited to three-year deals. If a team is paying the luxury tax, the NBA's proposal calls for that team to lose the full mid-level and be limited to a smaller, $2.5 million exception. The players believe this both hurts the middle class and discourages teams from spending into the luxury tax.

• Qualifying offers: Players want more lucrative offers. Ownership wants them to stay the same.

• Escrow: The NBA is seeking escrow protection -- believed to be 10 percent -- which would, in essence, guarantee the league hits its target BRI number. Players have offered to increase the escrow to a band of 8-10 percent.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.

• Trade exceptions: The players want them increased. The NBA wants them to stay the same.

• Rookie contracts: While the rookie wage scale would stay the same, the union has pushed for incentivizing contracts to give elite rookies the opportunity to make more money quicker.

• Annual raises: Under the terms of the last CBA, players with Bird rights were entitled to 10.5 percent raises and everyone else could receive 8.5 percent. The union has offered to reduce those raises to 7.5 percent/6.5 percent while the NBA's offer was 5.5 percent/3 percent.

• Salary-cap holds: The union wants them lower. The NBA wants them to stay the same.

Link

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by Big J 33

I've never predicted a deal was going to be made following any of the negotiations, but maybe that's the problem.

Prediction: 13 hours, joint presser, lockout over.

Book it.

My prediction: 6 hours, separate pressers, Stern and Hunter take turns insulting each other's sides, December will be rumored that it will be on the brink of cancellation, the two sides will start secretly meeting/calling in a week for the next two weeks, finally in mid-December they finally meet publicly again, talks blow the @%@# up when Stern goes in there asking for a 43-57 split in favor of owners, suggest a 5:1 luxury tax and the new MLE will be what the old BAE was. Season canceled.
Doom and gloom..... or reverse jinx

DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! 

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by Big J 33

I've never predicted a deal was going to be made following any of the negotiations, but maybe that's the problem.

Prediction: 13 hours, joint presser, lockout over.

Book it.

My prediction: 6 hours, separate pressers, Stern and Hunter take turns insulting each other's sides, December will be rumored that it will be on the brink of cancellation, the two sides will start secretly meeting/calling in a week for the next two weeks, finally in mid-December they finally meet publicly again, talks blow the @%@# up when Stern goes in there asking for a 43-57 split in favor of owners, suggest a 5:1 luxury tax and the new MLE will be what the old BAE was. Season canceled.
Doom and gloom..... or reverse jinx

DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! 

 

[japanair21]

• The "Super Tax": Both the players and owners have agreed, in part, on a punitive tax for teams that exceed the luxury-tax threshold. For every dollar -- up to $5 million -- that a team goes over the limit, it pays a $1.50 tax. In the previous CBA, it was dollar for dollar. Moreover, the two sides have agreed that the tax will get incrementally larger every $5 million.


Damn, this could be huge for big spenders like Lakers and Mavericks, where they're like what, 30 million over the cap?

• Minimum team salary: The minimum team salary must be 85 percent of the salary cap.


Is that new? How the hell do you enforce that?

• Restricted free agency: A team will have three days to match offers on restricted free agents. Previously, a team had seven.


Three? Give em a day. If they want the player, pay up and decide quickly. That delay really kills chances at other players during FA.

• Injury exception: In the event of a season-ending injury, a team will be given a one-year, $5 million exception to replace an injured player.


Interesting to see how that will work out, as I guess that player can't come back even if they somehow rehab quicker.

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

, we know who this would be used on.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.


I wonder how much of a sticking point that would be..

 

[japanair21]

• The "Super Tax": Both the players and owners have agreed, in part, on a punitive tax for teams that exceed the luxury-tax threshold. For every dollar -- up to $5 million -- that a team goes over the limit, it pays a $1.50 tax. In the previous CBA, it was dollar for dollar. Moreover, the two sides have agreed that the tax will get incrementally larger every $5 million.


Damn, this could be huge for big spenders like Lakers and Mavericks, where they're like what, 30 million over the cap?

• Minimum team salary: The minimum team salary must be 85 percent of the salary cap.


Is that new? How the hell do you enforce that?

• Restricted free agency: A team will have three days to match offers on restricted free agents. Previously, a team had seven.


Three? Give em a day. If they want the player, pay up and decide quickly. That delay really kills chances at other players during FA.

• Injury exception: In the event of a season-ending injury, a team will be given a one-year, $5 million exception to replace an injured player.


Interesting to see how that will work out, as I guess that player can't come back even if they somehow rehab quicker.

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

, we know who this would be used on.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.


I wonder how much of a sticking point that would be..

 

[pmatic]

@ZachLowe_SI There were small tweaks. Example: Source close to matter says league has offered opt-out after Year 6.

@ZachLowe_SI Another tweak, per source close to talks: Teams under cap who then spend up to it would get a little exception, worth $2.5M, to spend.

 

[pmatic]

@ZachLowe_SI There were small tweaks. Example: Source close to matter says league has offered opt-out after Year 6.

@ZachLowe_SI Another tweak, per source close to talks: Teams under cap who then spend up to it would get a little exception, worth $2.5M, to spend.

 

[big j 33]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

I am 100% in favor rookie contract incentives, though.


http://twitter.com/#!/JoshuaBRobbins

JoshuaBRobbins Josh Robbins
If union accepts, AllStar Game wd b played @AmwayCenter Feb. 26, #NBA spokesman tells @OrlandoSentinel:
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF TONIGHT

because I very much want to go to All-Star Weekend.

 

[big j 33]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

I am 100% in favor rookie contract incentives, though.


http://twitter.com/#!/JoshuaBRobbins

JoshuaBRobbins Josh Robbins
If union accepts, AllStar Game wd b played @AmwayCenter Feb. 26, #NBA spokesman tells @OrlandoSentinel:
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF TONIGHT

because I very much want to go to All-Star Weekend.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Ya there have been I think like 5. With only 1 or 2 of them being of significance.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Ya there have been I think like 5. With only 1 or 2 of them being of significance.

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

, we know who this would be used on.


I know the Suns are mad.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.


I wonder how much of a sticking point that would be..

It better be a huge !%*%$+@ sticking point.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

I am 100% in favor rookie contract incentives, though.


http://twitter.com/#!/JoshuaBRobbins

JoshuaBRobbins Josh Robbins
If union accepts, AllStar Game wd b played @AmwayCenter Feb. 26, #NBA spokesman tells @OrlandoSentinel:

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF TONIGHT

because I very much want to go to All-Star Weekend.

Ken Berger reported there were five teams in the luxury tax that executed sign and trade deals a few days ago but he clarified yesterday tweeting it was only three teams during the last CBA.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

I am 100% in favor rookie contract incentives, though.


http://twitter.com/#!/JoshuaBRobbins

JoshuaBRobbins Josh Robbins
If union accepts, AllStar Game wd b played @AmwayCenter Feb. 26, #NBA spokesman tells @OrlandoSentinel:

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF TONIGHT

because I very much want to go to All-Star Weekend.

Ken Berger reported there were five teams in the luxury tax that executed sign and trade deals a few days ago but he clarified yesterday tweeting it was only three teams during the last CBA.

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

• Amnesty clause: A team may waive one player and not have that player's contract count against the cap. That clause may be used at any time over the life of the collective bargaining agreement.

, we know who this would be used on.


I know the Suns are mad.

• Sign-and-trades: The NBA proposal prohibits taxpaying teams from executing sign-and-trades. The players are against that.


I wonder how much of a sticking point that would be..

It better be a huge !%*%$+@ sticking point.

 

[japanair21]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

Someone tweeted a few days ago there have only been three relatively big S+T

The two I remember was Kwame Brown trade and Shawn Marion trade.

 

[japanair21]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

Someone tweeted a few days ago there have only been three relatively big S+T

The two I remember was Kwame Brown trade and Shawn Marion trade.

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

Someone tweeted a few days ago there have only been three relatively big S+T

The two I remember was Kwame Brown trade and Shawn Marion trade.

That is correct.

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't only a few teams in the tax executed sign and trades?

Someone tweeted a few days ago there have only been three relatively big S+T

The two I remember was Kwame Brown trade and Shawn Marion trade.

That is correct.

 

[pmatic]

The Knicks-Bulls sign and trade involving Eddy Curry was the other one.