The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[CP1708]

Great point by Etan, hey we had record year, now we want to fix mistakes WE made out of your pocket and make it easier to take away your job, sign here.

And I love that idea about rolling back GM money for their horrible work.

 

[hood17]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

This is not anywhere close to a negotiation.

Pretty much. I still think we won't have a season

I can't believe that the owners think there more valuable than the players. The players came from 57% all the way to 51%.

Is it more system issues now? Or is the BRI still a issue?

 

[hood17]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

This is not anywhere close to a negotiation.

Pretty much. I still think we won't have a season

I can't believe that the owners think there more valuable than the players. The players came from 57% all the way to 51%.

Is it more system issues now? Or is the BRI still a issue?

 

[T0INE]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

The 50 is fine, the players are willing to give that up. However, the owners want them to give up the 7% of bri, and have all these salary rollbacks, age limit, restrict player movement, bring contract length, dollar figures, and raise %s down, they literally want to dominate every particular category of the negotiations. This is not anywhere close to a negotiation.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The owners have gone for the jugular throughout this entire "negotiation" process and the players have conceded a lot with little if any reciprocation from the owners.

I said the players should tak the current proposal because if you think the owners aren't negotiating now it will only get worse if this offer isn't accepted.

This is of course assuming that Stern's Doomsday warning is legit.

  

 

[T0INE]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

The 50 is fine, the players are willing to give that up. However, the owners want them to give up the 7% of bri, and have all these salary rollbacks, age limit, restrict player movement, bring contract length, dollar figures, and raise %s down, they literally want to dominate every particular category of the negotiations. This is not anywhere close to a negotiation.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The owners have gone for the jugular throughout this entire "negotiation" process and the players have conceded a lot with little if any reciprocation from the owners.

I said the players should tak the current proposal because if you think the owners aren't negotiating now it will only get worse if this offer isn't accepted.

This is of course assuming that Stern's Doomsday warning is legit.

  

 

[duba169]

the owners dont want to lose all that tv money plus interest. its my understanding that if the entire season is lost than they would

but logic hasnt been present in this "negotiation"

the NBA has spun it to look like these egomaniac greedy bastard players are to blame. the players public relations has been atrocious

these small markets can #+++ off though. they cant get revenue sharing from the big boys so they wana screw that players hard

 

[duba169]

the owners dont want to lose all that tv money plus interest. its my understanding that if the entire season is lost than they would

but logic hasnt been present in this "negotiation"

the NBA has spun it to look like these egomaniac greedy bastard players are to blame. the players public relations has been atrocious

these small markets can #+++ off though. they cant get revenue sharing from the big boys so they wana screw that players hard

 

[WhatisLove]

Stern: 'Greedy' Agents Hurting Chances of NBA Deal


By BRIAN MAHONEY

updated 11:24 p.m. ET Nov. 12, 2011

NEW YORK - Commissioner David Stern blamed "greedy" NBA agents Saturday for trying to scuttle a new labor deal and believes they are trying to push their clients into a "losing strategy" of decertification.
And Stern says neither the threat of that process nor any request from the union will change the league's negotiating position, repeating that there would be no further discussions about the revised proposal it offered Thursday. If players don't accept it, Stern reiterated that he would move to the harsher proposal that is waiting.

Stern is aware of the numerous comments from players criticizing the proposal, and fears they aren't getting the proper information about its contents because agents worry it will cost themselves money.

"By some combination of mendacity and greed, the agents who are looking out for themselves rather than their clients are trying to scuttle the deal," Stern said in a phone interview. "They're engaged in what appears to be an orchestrated Twitter campaign and a series of interviews that are designed to deny the economic realities of the proposal."

Player representatives will meet Monday and decide if they should put it to a vote. The indication Thursday from union leaders was that they weren't impressed with it, and a number of players have since been quoted saying they would shoot down the deal.

Stern said that's because the agents want them to, not because it's a bad offer.

"No one talks about the rise in compensation under the deal, no one talks about the amount of money being spent," Stern said. "I just think that the players aren't getting the information, the true information from their agents, who are banding together, sort of the coalition of the greedy and the mendacious, to do whatever they can not to have fewer opportunities for the agents to make money."

The revised proposal, though still far short of what the players had in the former collective bargaining agreement, offered some improvements over the one players said Tuesday they would reject. It increased the "mini" midlevel exception for teams over the luxury tax to $3 million annually for three years, allowed taxpayers to take part in sign-and-trades for the first two years, and added another midlevel for teams under the salary cap.

It still may not be good enough, and players are already discussing decertifying the union so they can file an antitrust lawsuit against the league instead. Stern said neither that, nor the union disclaiming as NFL players did, would give the players they leverage they seek.

And because it's a lengthy process, it would likely kill any hopes for a 2011-12 season.

"Yes, I am worried," Stern said, "because they're talking up this thing called decertification which is not a winning strategy on the one hand. On the second hand, it'll take three months to teach them it's not a winning strategy, which would not augur well for the season.

The agents misunderstand it and all it does is delay things. They themselves think that if the players decertify, then the league will change its offer. And that will not happen as a result of decertification. It's a losing strategy for them."

Stern again said there would be no further discussion about the revised proposal. Should players reject it, the next proposal calls for a 53-47 revenue split in favor of the owners, a flex cap with a hard ceiling, and salary rollbacks.

Stern said the proposal was delivered to the union Friday. Union leaders have been criticized for not getting the details of it out to players in time to prepare them for an educated vote.

"They say they are done negotiating. If we really are at that point, the players need to see exactly what is on the table — not the internet, not Twitter — and see exactly in writing, this is the proposal," one agent said.

Should players accept the deal, a 72-game season would start Dec. 15. Stern said he hoped the season could be saved, but added that he wasn't sure what to believe because "the agents are trying to do their best to bring it down."

And if Stern were running the meeting Monday, he knows what he would tell the player reps.

"This is our only shot to get a 72-game season starting on Dec 15. Take the deal, let's go back and play basketball," he said.

___

AP Sports Writer Tim Reynolds in Miami contributed to this report.

Link

 

[WhatisLove]

Stern: 'Greedy' Agents Hurting Chances of NBA Deal


By BRIAN MAHONEY

updated 11:24 p.m. ET Nov. 12, 2011

NEW YORK - Commissioner David Stern blamed "greedy" NBA agents Saturday for trying to scuttle a new labor deal and believes they are trying to push their clients into a "losing strategy" of decertification.
And Stern says neither the threat of that process nor any request from the union will change the league's negotiating position, repeating that there would be no further discussions about the revised proposal it offered Thursday. If players don't accept it, Stern reiterated that he would move to the harsher proposal that is waiting.

Stern is aware of the numerous comments from players criticizing the proposal, and fears they aren't getting the proper information about its contents because agents worry it will cost themselves money.

"By some combination of mendacity and greed, the agents who are looking out for themselves rather than their clients are trying to scuttle the deal," Stern said in a phone interview. "They're engaged in what appears to be an orchestrated Twitter campaign and a series of interviews that are designed to deny the economic realities of the proposal."

Player representatives will meet Monday and decide if they should put it to a vote. The indication Thursday from union leaders was that they weren't impressed with it, and a number of players have since been quoted saying they would shoot down the deal.

Stern said that's because the agents want them to, not because it's a bad offer.

"No one talks about the rise in compensation under the deal, no one talks about the amount of money being spent," Stern said. "I just think that the players aren't getting the information, the true information from their agents, who are banding together, sort of the coalition of the greedy and the mendacious, to do whatever they can not to have fewer opportunities for the agents to make money."

The revised proposal, though still far short of what the players had in the former collective bargaining agreement, offered some improvements over the one players said Tuesday they would reject. It increased the "mini" midlevel exception for teams over the luxury tax to $3 million annually for three years, allowed taxpayers to take part in sign-and-trades for the first two years, and added another midlevel for teams under the salary cap.

It still may not be good enough, and players are already discussing decertifying the union so they can file an antitrust lawsuit against the league instead. Stern said neither that, nor the union disclaiming as NFL players did, would give the players they leverage they seek.

And because it's a lengthy process, it would likely kill any hopes for a 2011-12 season.

"Yes, I am worried," Stern said, "because they're talking up this thing called decertification which is not a winning strategy on the one hand. On the second hand, it'll take three months to teach them it's not a winning strategy, which would not augur well for the season.

The agents misunderstand it and all it does is delay things. They themselves think that if the players decertify, then the league will change its offer. And that will not happen as a result of decertification. It's a losing strategy for them."

Stern again said there would be no further discussion about the revised proposal. Should players reject it, the next proposal calls for a 53-47 revenue split in favor of the owners, a flex cap with a hard ceiling, and salary rollbacks.

Stern said the proposal was delivered to the union Friday. Union leaders have been criticized for not getting the details of it out to players in time to prepare them for an educated vote.

"They say they are done negotiating. If we really are at that point, the players need to see exactly what is on the table — not the internet, not Twitter — and see exactly in writing, this is the proposal," one agent said.

Should players accept the deal, a 72-game season would start Dec. 15. Stern said he hoped the season could be saved, but added that he wasn't sure what to believe because "the agents are trying to do their best to bring it down."

And if Stern were running the meeting Monday, he knows what he would tell the player reps.

"This is our only shot to get a 72-game season starting on Dec 15. Take the deal, let's go back and play basketball," he said.

___

AP Sports Writer Tim Reynolds in Miami contributed to this report.

Link

 

[japanair21]

I'm dying for some NBA man...

Boxing and NFL just aren't enough to hold me over.

Call me a sucker for going along with the people that want this deal to be done, but I just want some basketball. Even if they accepted the deal tomorrow and started basketball on the 15th of December, that's still a long damn time for me to wait.

The Mavericks never even got their Championship Blu-ray so I can't rejoice in that even.

 

[japanair21]

I'm dying for some NBA man...

Boxing and NFL just aren't enough to hold me over.

Call me a sucker for going along with the people that want this deal to be done, but I just want some basketball. Even if they accepted the deal tomorrow and started basketball on the 15th of December, that's still a long damn time for me to wait.

The Mavericks never even got their Championship Blu-ray so I can't rejoice in that even.

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Keep the system the same & split BRI down the middle

Ratings remain high and the owners get a multi-billion dollar giveback on the player's behalf so the league isn't losing hundreds of millions of dollars anymore.

at you thinking this is a viable solution.

That's what should happen. But it won't unfortunately.

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Keep the system the same & split BRI down the middle

Ratings remain high and the owners get a multi-billion dollar giveback on the player's behalf so the league isn't losing hundreds of millions of dollars anymore.

at you thinking this is a viable solution.

That's what should happen. But it won't unfortunately.

 

[jaeevolution]

I agree with him that decertification is a bad idea, but he's the last one I want to hear talking about who's being greedy.

 

[jaeevolution]

I agree with him that decertification is a bad idea, but he's the last one I want to hear talking about who's being greedy.

 

[CP1708]

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

 

[CP1708]

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

I feel bad for the owners who really are innocent bystanders in all of this. The guys you know are generally good owners, and just want this to go away so they can get back to business. Not douches like Peter Holt and Dan Gilbert.

I find it kind of funny that the most outspoken owner in the NBA has been pretty much absent in these talks. This new deal won't be good for him nor his way of owning the Mavericks, but hopefully he'll keep shelling out the cash, if the CBA allows it.

These hard-line owners and Stern can really just shut up now with these system issues though. I sided with the owners at first because I really think there are teams out there losing cash, a lot of cash. But as you said, 330 million in concessions every year for the next ten, and you want to really handicap a lot of teams out there? To what they say would be a more competitive league? Ehh...

Even with the horrendous drafting of the Bobcats, they still weren't terrible. They've been a fringe-Playoff team. If they had been drafting better, and making better roster moves, they could be just like Atlanta, who has no real star.

There are very few teams out there now that don't really have anything to show for themselves. Cleveland has Kyrie now. Toronto kinda sucks, but whatever. Washington has John Wall and McGee, New Jersey has Deron Williams for one more year, Detroit sucks too, Charlotte isn't terrible considering what they have to work with in Jordan. Milwaukee has very nice pieces to build with. Indiana has a real good PG with a very solid wing player, and a developing Center. Philly is kind of a mess, but they still have pieces. Minny has Love and a potential player in Rubio. Sacramento has a former RoY. LAC has Blake and all his starpower. GS has Curry and Monta. Utah got Favors, Phoenix still holding onto Nash.

Are these teams really going to benefit by having these system restrictions holding back the contending teams? Will this super tax really stop teams like Lakers and Mavericks from overspending? Does a reduced MLE stop very good players from signing on tax-paying teams?

It really does get rid of the middle-class NBA player. I mean it's a blessing in disguise for guys like Jason Terry to not be making eight-figure salaries, but there are certain players who definitely deserve it.

I'm tired, and I just want some NBA. NCAA is cool and everything, it's just not for me.

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

I feel bad for the owners who really are innocent bystanders in all of this. The guys you know are generally good owners, and just want this to go away so they can get back to business. Not douches like Peter Holt and Dan Gilbert.

I find it kind of funny that the most outspoken owner in the NBA has been pretty much absent in these talks. This new deal won't be good for him nor his way of owning the Mavericks, but hopefully he'll keep shelling out the cash, if the CBA allows it.

These hard-line owners and Stern can really just shut up now with these system issues though. I sided with the owners at first because I really think there are teams out there losing cash, a lot of cash. But as you said, 330 million in concessions every year for the next ten, and you want to really handicap a lot of teams out there? To what they say would be a more competitive league? Ehh...

Even with the horrendous drafting of the Bobcats, they still weren't terrible. They've been a fringe-Playoff team. If they had been drafting better, and making better roster moves, they could be just like Atlanta, who has no real star.

There are very few teams out there now that don't really have anything to show for themselves. Cleveland has Kyrie now. Toronto kinda sucks, but whatever. Washington has John Wall and McGee, New Jersey has Deron Williams for one more year, Detroit sucks too, Charlotte isn't terrible considering what they have to work with in Jordan. Milwaukee has very nice pieces to build with. Indiana has a real good PG with a very solid wing player, and a developing Center. Philly is kind of a mess, but they still have pieces. Minny has Love and a potential player in Rubio. Sacramento has a former RoY. LAC has Blake and all his starpower. GS has Curry and Monta. Utah got Favors, Phoenix still holding onto Nash.

Are these teams really going to benefit by having these system restrictions holding back the contending teams? Will this super tax really stop teams like Lakers and Mavericks from overspending? Does a reduced MLE stop very good players from signing on tax-paying teams?

It really does get rid of the middle-class NBA player. I mean it's a blessing in disguise for guys like Jason Terry to not be making eight-figure salaries, but there are certain players who definitely deserve it.

I'm tired, and I just want some NBA. NCAA is cool and everything, it's just not for me.

 

[mr marcus]

30 white guys including mj made me holler

 

[mr marcus]

30 white guys including mj made me holler

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

Doesn't mean he's wrong though.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh Stern you silly boy getting 30 white guys (MJ included) 330 million more dollars a year and still demanding more and then calling someone else greedy. Only you David, only you would be so bold. #foreverdouche

Doesn't mean he's wrong though.

 

[pmatic]

Rumors Drown Truth on NBA’s Proposal

Hours after the NBA delivered its final collective bargaining proposal to the players union, the rumors and the rhetoric began to flow.

The deal would let teams send players to the development league and cut their pay.

Teams that used certain salary cap exceptions would lose the right to re-sign their own players.

“Bird

 

[pmatic]

Rumors Drown Truth on NBA’s Proposal

Hours after the NBA delivered its final collective bargaining proposal to the players union, the rumors and the rhetoric began to flow.

The deal would let teams send players to the development league and cut their pay.

Teams that used certain salary cap exceptions would lose the right to re-sign their own players.

“Bird