The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Unless I missed something, the league has canceled the first two weeks' worth of games in December without a formal announcement (go to a team's official website and look up their schedule).

Yes a lot of the writers covering the lockout pointed this out after the last negotiations. Also, I thought Amar'e left for NY because Sarvers cheapass would only offer 100 mil with only 80 mil gaurunteed. While the Knicks offer was fully gaurunteed.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Unless I missed something, the league has canceled the first two weeks' worth of games in December without a formal announcement (go to a team's official website and look up their schedule).

Yes a lot of the writers covering the lockout pointed this out after the last negotiations. Also, I thought Amar'e left for NY because Sarvers cheapass would only offer 100 mil with only 80 mil gaurunteed. While the Knicks offer was fully gaurunteed.

 

[duba169]

that is why. the location was just extra. if the bulls offered a max I think he would have have went there. instant contender.

same with melo. money first. new york was icing on the cake

There are many cons to being in the biggest market. terrible news media and extremely high prices on everything, including taxes. More pressure.

 

[duba169]

that is why. the location was just extra. if the bulls offered a max I think he would have have went there. instant contender.

same with melo. money first. new york was icing on the cake

There are many cons to being in the biggest market. terrible news media and extremely high prices on everything, including taxes. More pressure.

 

[what up]

Originally Posted by DubA169

but i just don't think its right to prevent someone from making money. especially in the NBA. Football is understandable because of the physicality.

you don't need two years to decide that lebron should be taken with the first pick

I swear I'm not picking on you, but these two nuggets are absolute gems. 

 

[what up]

Originally Posted by DubA169

but i just don't think its right to prevent someone from making money. especially in the NBA. Football is understandable because of the physicality.

you don't need two years to decide that lebron should be taken with the first pick

I swear I'm not picking on you, but these two nuggets are absolute gems. 

 

[everysingletime]

The 2 year rule is going to screw up a lot of players. But I don't mind the 2 year rule. If management want more time to evaluate ppl that they're going to pay then ok.

What I do mind is management trying to restrict player movement. An employee has every right to choose where they want to work.

 

[everysingletime]

The 2 year rule is going to screw up a lot of players. But I don't mind the 2 year rule. If management want more time to evaluate ppl that they're going to pay then ok.

What I do mind is management trying to restrict player movement. An employee has every right to choose where they want to work.

 

[duba169]

explain to me why someone who is obviously going to be a star in the NBA needs to stay in school for two years? enlighten me.

hope you all have alot of fun watching more scandals happen in the NCAA

 

[duba169]

explain to me why someone who is obviously going to be a star in the NBA needs to stay in school for two years? enlighten me.

hope you all have alot of fun watching more scandals happen in the NCAA

 

[Deleted member 38182]

I enjoy the scandals [emoji]128521[/emoji]

 

[Deleted member 38182]

I enjoy the scandals [emoji]128521[/emoji]

 

[duba169]

MORNING UPDATE:

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
David Falk says it's time for union to send NBA offer to full membership for vote
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/sport ... .html?_r=1

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Falk: “it would be a complete abdication of responsibility as agents for anyone to suggest that the players as a group shouldn’t vote"

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
For the youngsters: Falk was the agent for Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning. No agent more hawkish than he was in 1990s.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source told me if full membership votes on the owner's deal, NBA would open for business by Wednesday.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
To folo up @MikeWellsNBA tweet: agent yesterday said he's utterly frustrated w/lack of info coming from @TheNBPA. Had yet to see NBA offer

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
If union wants players/agents to be able to make intelligent decision on NBA proposal, it needs to distribute full, detailed offer.



Lol and mj recruiting falk to do his dirty work.

I don't dare at this point. Just vote

 

[duba169]

MORNING UPDATE:

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
David Falk says it's time for union to send NBA offer to full membership for vote
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/sport ... .html?_r=1

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Falk: “it would be a complete abdication of responsibility as agents for anyone to suggest that the players as a group shouldn’t vote"

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
For the youngsters: Falk was the agent for Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning. No agent more hawkish than he was in 1990s.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source told me if full membership votes on the owner's deal, NBA would open for business by Wednesday.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
To folo up @MikeWellsNBA tweet: agent yesterday said he's utterly frustrated w/lack of info coming from @TheNBPA. Had yet to see NBA offer

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
If union wants players/agents to be able to make intelligent decision on NBA proposal, it needs to distribute full, detailed offer.



Lol and mj recruiting falk to do his dirty work.

I don't dare at this point. Just vote

 

[japanair21]

My headache on this situation has hit n all-time high.

Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.


That had been my belief all along, most poorer players just want to play.

 

[japanair21]

My headache on this situation has hit n all-time high.

Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.


That had been my belief all along, most poorer players just want to play.

 

[japanair21]

[h2]Jason Terry says players ready[/h2]

Dallas Mavericks player representative Jason Terry said that if the proposal NBA commissioner David Stern delivered to the union late Thursday night is not a substantial improvement from the league's prior one, players will be prepared to walk away, even if it threatens losing the entire season.

"Our reasoning and what our strategy is, is we are trying to grow the game of basketball, and under the terms that have been presented to us, the game of basketball for us, from a players' perspective, financially, will not be growing," Terry said Friday morning during an appearance on the "Ben and Skin Show" on 103.3 FM ESPN.

"We will actually be getting rid of a class. In life and society there are three classes: There's the upper class, the middle class and lower class. And what the owners are trying to do right now, what their proposal is, get rid of the middle class so you have one or two guys on each team making 'X' and the rest of the guys crunched down at a smaller number and then no middle ground."

“

I would not presume to project or predict what the union would do. I can hope, and my hope is the events of next week will lead us to a 72-game schedule starting on Dec. 15.

 

[japanair21]

[h2]Jason Terry says players ready[/h2]

Dallas Mavericks player representative Jason Terry said that if the proposal NBA commissioner David Stern delivered to the union late Thursday night is not a substantial improvement from the league's prior one, players will be prepared to walk away, even if it threatens losing the entire season.

"Our reasoning and what our strategy is, is we are trying to grow the game of basketball, and under the terms that have been presented to us, the game of basketball for us, from a players' perspective, financially, will not be growing," Terry said Friday morning during an appearance on the "Ben and Skin Show" on 103.3 FM ESPN.

"We will actually be getting rid of a class. In life and society there are three classes: There's the upper class, the middle class and lower class. And what the owners are trying to do right now, what their proposal is, get rid of the middle class so you have one or two guys on each team making 'X' and the rest of the guys crunched down at a smaller number and then no middle ground."

“

I would not presume to project or predict what the union would do. I can hope, and my hope is the events of next week will lead us to a 72-game schedule starting on Dec. 15.

 

[da r entertainment]

This is not looking good @ all.

 

[da r entertainment]

This is not looking good @ all.

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My headache on this situation has hit n all-time high.

Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

That had been my belief all along, most poorer players just want to play.
They do and could care less about the minor details, but as time passes I'm beginning to feel like the NBAPA is not doing all they can to inform these players.  This article confirms it http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....al-problem-on-the-players-side-in-this-fight/.  The players are ill-equipped for this battle.

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My headache on this situation has hit n all-time high.

Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

That had been my belief all along, most poorer players just want to play.
They do and could care less about the minor details, but as time passes I'm beginning to feel like the NBAPA is not doing all they can to inform these players.  This article confirms it http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....al-problem-on-the-players-side-in-this-fight/.  The players are ill-equipped for this battle.

 

[antbanks81]

In response to the 2 yr rule, maybe owners should be more careful about selcting their GMs and scouting staffs. These rules are trying to make their jobs easier. The word "potential" was being thrown around like crazy last decade until there were a few busts. I don't think there should be a rule against players coming out of high school. As a GM, if you don't think they are ready, don't draft them. If you're wrong and they become the next Kobe, T-Mac or LeBron, then you just @##*#@ up and need to improve your skills.

I hope that all the players vote and we get this damn thing started.

The NBA is going to have a tough time rebounding from this. I for one refuse to buy tickets or anything at the stadium if tickets are given to me.

Both sides are on some *@!*%*+@.

 

[pmatic]

Etan Thomas has questions...

NBA labor-negotiation questions

1. To his credit, David Stern can spin information with the best of them. That being said, I have not met one player who, after fully understanding the particulars of the NBA's proposal, concluded that this is an acceptable deal. So my question is, what will it take for the NBA CEOs to understand that they are not going to be able to manipulate the players through the media?

2. The NBA CEOs know that their proposed system functions as a hard cap, because no team will be willing to pay that strict a penalty for going over the luxury tax. Do they think the players can't see that?

3. Do the NBA CEOs think the union can't see that this "new revision" is worse than the proposal they gave us last week, even though the "clock has stopped" on their ultimatum?

4. Are the NBA CEOs convince the union can't figure out that the way in which they constructed and defined the mid-level exception, no team will ever use it?

5. Did the NBA CEOs believe with Michael Jordan to the negotiating table we were going to be intimidated or awed to the point that this awful deal would start to look more attractive to us?

6. David Stern obviously issued his "terrible deal now or even worse deal" later ultimatum because he wanted to scare the players into meeting his every demand. Did he really expect that his threat would cause the union to come running with apologies for being bad employees and beg him to let us go back to work?

7. When the union was given the two options of a horrible deal now or an even worse deal later, why are people really surprised that we chose neither?

8. During recent negotiations, reporters continuously tweeted and wrote articles citing "anonymous sources" saying that we were closer to a deal then we actually were, or that progress was being made. Why do reporters keep giving false hope to fans?


9. During the 1998 lockout, David Robinson made the statement after one of their failed negotiation sessions, "They don't negotiate. They tell you how it will be, and they don't want to listen to the players." Isn't it interesting how history repeats itself?

10. When someone buys a fast-food franchise, they don't just get keys and a congratulations card. They receive instructions on how to successfully operate the business. Instead of the NBA CEOs attempting to create rules to save them from from themselves , wouldn't the NBA be better off with a training session by David Stern, teaching each NBA CEO how to successfully run his business and avoid the pitfalls of CEOs past?

11. Why wouldn't the NBA consider a rollback on the salaries of the presidents and general managers who mismanaged their teams and were the ones ultimately responsible for their financial problems?

12. Political sportswriter Dave Zirin asked me if I thought the concession workers, parking lot attendants, janitors, food vendors, secretaries, scouts, trainers, mascots, dance teams and every other employee affected by this lockout would turn their anger on both sides and follow the lead of other protestors around the country. What if they start "Occupy the NBA?"

13. If Occupy the NBA were to happen, would the occupiers see the NBA CEOs as the 1 percent who want to impose their corporate greed, power and will on their employees?

14. A few friends of mine told me that although they appreciated my support for the Occupy Wall Street movement, I would never be considered as part of the 99 percent (they made the distinction that I was more like the 5 percent). My question is, if an Occupy the NBA were to happen, would the players be lumped in with the 1 percent because of million-dollar salaries?

15. While the issues raised by the Wall Street occupiers differ from the issues of this lockout, aren't there obvious parallels in power imbalance?

16. Who is in the same position of power as the 1 percent ? Who wants a bailout for their own mismanagement decisions? Who is more closely aligned with the corporate interests from which the Wall Street occupiers are looking to reclaim the country?

17. More than 46 million people are living below the poverty line, unemployment is at 9 percent, and those who are employed are in constant fear of losing their jobs. Many people are unable to make mortgage payments or buy their kids clothes, much less think of college tuition. And rumors are spreading that unless a deal is reached this week, David Stern will cancel games through Christmas, even as some fans don't know how they will celebrate Christmas. With that economic reality, what if we simply lose the fans altogether?

18. Do the NBA CEOs understand that if the fan base shrinks that could decrease game attendance, lower TV ratings, lower overall interest and reduce the overall value of each franchise?

19. Could the outrage of the fans push the negotiations along more effectively than any labor committee, union, board of governors or mediator?

20. Why does race always have to be injected into this power struggle? Do people understand that the only color the 1 percent care about is green? They have a lot of it, they want a lot more of it, and they will step on anyone's (black, white, brown, etc.) neck to get it.

21. During the lockout of 1998, Michael Jordan famously said to Wizards CEO Abe Pollin "If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team." That was then and this is now. Why do people have difficulty understanding that he is no longer a player but currently joined at the hip with the rest of the CEOs of the NBA, who -- like Bank of America, Wall Street and the rest of the 1 percent -- not only want but expect a bailout for their own actions?

22. During the NFL's lockout, Troy Polamalu said, "I think what the players are fighting for is something bigger. A lot of people think it's millionaires versus billionaires and that's the huge argument. The fact is, it's people fighting against big business. The big business argument is, 'I got the money and I got the power, therefore, I can tell you what to do.' That's life everywhere. I think this is a time when the football players are standing up saying, 'No, no, no, the people have the power.'" Isn't it interesting how the common theme here is power and greed?

23. If your boss came to you and said, "Listen, I know we are coming off of record overall profits as far as overall revenue and the most lucrative year in history but we have made some individual decisions that we are not happy with and we need you to take massive pay cuts. We need you to agree to construct the rules so that we can no longer make those mistakes, and we want you to make it easier for us to get rid of you if we choose." What would your reaction be? Would you say "Some money is better than no money," or would you gather the rest of your fellow employees and stand up for yourselves?


Link

 

[japanair21]

@ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Kevin Durant (@KDTrey5) before Josh Howard charity game on NBA's offer: "From the vibe I'm getting, I don't think it's a deal we want."

@ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
LaMarcus Aldridge (@aldridge_12) will definitely be in NYC as Blazer player rep. More from @KDTrey5: "We can't take 50/50 and a bad system."

@SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Thunder's @KDTrey5 tells @YahooSports he could sign an offer to play Spain, Israel or Germany if lockout isn't resolved soon.


This is such a mixed-bag, I don't even know what to think.

If it's just the player-reps who are going to decide whether or not the vote will go to the entire NBA population, I think this deal is dead. But if they say let's just put this deal to our players and see what they say, I think the majority will be in favor of the deal going through.