The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by gangsta207therevolution,
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2006
Shawne Williams; Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap, and Leon Powe(7 players)
2007
Rodney Stuckey, Nick Young, Marco Bellinili, Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Affalo, Tiago Splitter, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, and Ramon Sessions. (13 players)
2008
Robin Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Mario Chalmers, and DeAndre Jordan(10 players)
So, from 2006 - '08, 30 out of 138(number of non-lotto picks) panned out. That's 21% success, 1 in 5 if you hate math. I'm not saying the late picks are loaded with gems(nor the whole draft for that matter), but there's a healthy amount of talent to find. So, the more picks you have, the better chance you have at building through the draft. If that's the case, why are these bad teams TRADING AWAY their 1st rounders or NOT ACCUMULATING picks. Once again, the good small market front offices(Portland, OKC, Rockets, Spurs) do their best to accumulate picks/young talent. Each year, these late 1st rounders of the good teams are available, whether for cash(how the Knicks got the Lakers' pick, to draft Toney Douglas in '09) or for proven vets(Grizzlies with Battier).
At the end of the day, great front office>>all
my man is goin IN
- 2,425
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2006
Shawne Williams; Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap, and Leon Powe(7 players)
2007
Rodney Stuckey, Nick Young, Marco Bellinili, Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Affalo, Tiago Splitter, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, and Ramon Sessions. (13 players)
2008
Robin Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Mario Chalmers, and DeAndre Jordan(10 players)
So, from 2006 - '08, 30 out of 138(number of non-lotto picks) panned out. That's 21% success, 1 in 5 if you hate math. I'm not saying the late picks are loaded with gems(nor the whole draft for that matter), but there's a healthy amount of talent to find. So, the more picks you have, the better chance you have at building through the draft. If that's the case, why are these bad teams TRADING AWAY their 1st rounders or NOT ACCUMULATING picks. Once again, the good small market front offices(Portland, OKC, Rockets, Spurs) do their best to accumulate picks/young talent. Each year, these late 1st rounders of the good teams are available, whether for cash(how the Knicks got the Lakers' pick, to draft Toney Douglas in '09) or for proven vets(Grizzlies with Battier).
At the end of the day, great front office>>all
my man is goin IN
D
Deleted member 38182
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I would hate arguing with CP in real life
it would be like arguing with an agnostic or atheist over religion
the guy will never change his mind on anything
But its entertaining at least
But its entertaining at least
D
Deleted member 38182
Guest
I would hate arguing with CP in real life
it would be like arguing with an agnostic or atheist over religion
the guy will never change his mind on anything
But its entertaining at least
But its entertaining at least
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LMFAO!!!
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LMFAO!!!
Hey now, just in case its what you're thinking, I include Amare with Melo. I wasn't saying Amare doesn't count. I suspect that's what you thought I meant.
Hey now, just in case its what you're thinking, I include Amare with Melo. I wasn't saying Amare doesn't count. I suspect that's what you thought I meant.
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This animation is from the same Taiwanese network that did the Tiger Woods accident reenactment. They're attempting to explain the lockout. Thought this was amusing.
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This animation is from the same Taiwanese network that did the Tiger Woods accident reenactment. They're attempting to explain the lockout. Thought this was amusing.
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Bron just can't catch a break
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Bron just can't catch a break
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Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
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Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
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I'm going to agree with the statement in bold above. But I think large market teams make horrible decisions too. I'd say at least half of the league needs help from themselves. Look at the Heisley & the Grizzlies. In the summer of 09, Rudy Gay's agent was asking for a 5 year $50 mil extension. The Grizzlies declined this offer which may have been in part to Heisley trying to sell the team. 1 year later they sign him to a 5 year $80 mil deal.Originally Posted by LDJ
Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
What kind of sense did this make? Look at how far they got without him? No one expected Memphis to get into the playoffs much less the second round... Gay may end up a decent player (which I doubt), but this is clearly an example of teams making horrible decisions..
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I'm going to agree with the statement in bold above. But I think large market teams make horrible decisions too. I'd say at least half of the league needs help from themselves. Look at the Heisley & the Grizzlies. In the summer of 09, Rudy Gay's agent was asking for a 5 year $50 mil extension. The Grizzlies declined this offer which may have been in part to Heisley trying to sell the team. 1 year later they sign him to a 5 year $80 mil deal.Originally Posted by LDJ
Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
What kind of sense did this make? Look at how far they got without him? No one expected Memphis to get into the playoffs much less the second round... Gay may end up a decent player (which I doubt), but this is clearly an example of teams making horrible decisions..
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Yea but large market teams often times are teams with a rich history, have great staff/players and a desirable place to live. Like in the upcomming post-kobe years. the lakers with their history, great ownership staffing etc plus being in la, has a better chance to snag a top tier player. then lets say a minnosta or a clevland etc barring they arent in a winning position.Originally Posted by psk2310
I'm going to agree with the statement in bold above. But I think large market teams make horrible decisions too. I'd say at least half of the league needs help from themselves. Look at the Heisley & the Grizzlies. In the summer of 09, Rudy Gay's agent was asking for a 5 year $50 mil extension. The Grizzlies declined this offer which may have been in part to Heisley trying to sell the team. 1 year later they sign him to a 5 year $80 mil deal.Originally Posted by LDJ
Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
What kind of sense did this make? Look at how far they got without him? No one expected Memphis to get into the playoffs much less the second round... Gay may end up a decent player (which I doubt), but this is clearly an example of teams making horrible decisions..
- 3,938
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- Oct 6, 2009
Yea but large market teams often times are teams with a rich history, have great staff/players and a desirable place to live. Like in the upcomming post-kobe years. the lakers with their history, great ownership staffing etc plus being in la, has a better chance to snag a top tier player. then lets say a minnosta or a clevland etc barring they arent in a winning position.Originally Posted by psk2310
I'm going to agree with the statement in bold above. But I think large market teams make horrible decisions too. I'd say at least half of the league needs help from themselves. Look at the Heisley & the Grizzlies. In the summer of 09, Rudy Gay's agent was asking for a 5 year $50 mil extension. The Grizzlies declined this offer which may have been in part to Heisley trying to sell the team. 1 year later they sign him to a 5 year $80 mil deal.Originally Posted by LDJ
Originally Posted by Air Freshh 23
my man is goin IN
cosmic cannon gets it. usually bad/poor front offices+small market aka suck places to live=continue to have bad teams.
Suprise no one has mentioned charles barkley is donating his entire tnt nba broadcasting salary to charity since he feels shouldnt keep money you. didnt earn.
What kind of sense did this make? Look at how far they got without him? No one expected Memphis to get into the playoffs much less the second round... Gay may end up a decent player (which I doubt), but this is clearly an example of teams making horrible decisions..
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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No matter what happens with this new CBA, teams have to be able to go over the cap to resign its own free agents. *crosses fingers*
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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No matter what happens with this new CBA, teams have to be able to go over the cap to resign its own free agents. *crosses fingers*
Clyde Frog
formerly jay02
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Ray Allen for Desmond Mason
The reason most players dont play in those small market areas is because they suck as far as places to live, i mean come on no one says it be nice to visit milwaukee, clevland, etc.. Btw those so call small market teams offer more then the big market teams money wise. Lebron nba and market wise made less this year as a heat then any year he has ever had.
What usually the problem small market teams are own and ran by ppl who just look at owning a bball team as just another mount on the trophy case. Thus arent ran properly aka draft/trade bad, dont bring in good personnal.
Fixing the cba isnt going to change this. Teams like the cavs etc that are poorly ran wil still be poorly ran. Theyll just have more money to do it with.
Your right on that, the CBA wont attract players to smaller cities. But with a bigger shared revenue it will give them better financial opportunities like the bigger marketed teams. Along with that if the salary cap is decreased it will stop teams from creating this terrible big 3 trend. They wont be able to fit 3 contracts like the size of Miami's big 3. When stars cant come together like this they are forced to go elsewhere creating more parity. Unless superstars are willing to take enormous pay cuts.
Clyde Frog
formerly jay02
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Ray Allen for Desmond Mason
The reason most players dont play in those small market areas is because they suck as far as places to live, i mean come on no one says it be nice to visit milwaukee, clevland, etc.. Btw those so call small market teams offer more then the big market teams money wise. Lebron nba and market wise made less this year as a heat then any year he has ever had.
What usually the problem small market teams are own and ran by ppl who just look at owning a bball team as just another mount on the trophy case. Thus arent ran properly aka draft/trade bad, dont bring in good personnal.
Fixing the cba isnt going to change this. Teams like the cavs etc that are poorly ran wil still be poorly ran. Theyll just have more money to do it with.
Your right on that, the CBA wont attract players to smaller cities. But with a bigger shared revenue it will give them better financial opportunities like the bigger marketed teams. Along with that if the salary cap is decreased it will stop teams from creating this terrible big 3 trend. They wont be able to fit 3 contracts like the size of Miami's big 3. When stars cant come together like this they are forced to go elsewhere creating more parity. Unless superstars are willing to take enormous pay cuts.
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Well it's easy to play hindsight about Gay. To be fair, Gay DECLINED .
W/ that said, Memphis DID F THE GAME UP IN 2010, by giving Gay the max BEFORE FA STARTED. The Grizz offering Gay the max before FA started in Summer 2010, SET THE TONE IN 2010.
From there on, you saw several guys get the max, that are not max players. Those players are Joe Johnson and Amare. If the Grizz didn't offer Gay the max, than I doubt Gay would get 80 million. AT WORST, Gay would have got 75 million(5 million decrease) on the open market. So, the Grizz could have offered a fair deal( no more than a 5 year/65 mil deal is more than fair, and is 15 MIL MORE THAN GAY DECLINED IN 09). If Rudy Gay walks away, than the Grizz have a back-up plan.
That back-up plan, is Andre Iguodola.
Andre Iguodola is FAR CHEAPER( Iggy is owed 46 million over the next 3 years, assuming he accepts his player option in 2014, while Gay is owed 60 million over the next 4 years).
Aside from that, IGGY plays FAR BETTER DEFENSE and PASSES BETTER than Gay. Iggy is not great at getting his own shot, but can hit open shots and attack the rim. If the Grizz use Iggy as a back up plan to Gay, the dropoff is slim to none, and their team PROBABLY GETS BETTER with Iggy than with Gay.
Keep in mind, in 2010, the 76'ers had their coach fired and was coming off a 55 LOSS SEASON. So from the 76'ers standpoint, their looking TO REBUILD. If a team is looking to rebuild, than obviously they're trying to get rid of the high-paid vets(Iggy, Brand) to make room for new guys. Also, the 76'ers WERE LOOKING TO TRADE Iggy at the deadline in 2010. So Iggy wasn't untouchable in Summer 2010, and could have been attained.
I'm 100% confident that any package of Hasheem Thabeet + 2 first rounders, 2 first rounders, or 1 first rounder and Thabeet WOULD HAVE GOT Iggy sent to the Grizz in 2010. This was a realistic and fairly easy trade to get done at the time, yet this wasn't a possible. These GM's do not come up with ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS, that's why they simply sign guys NO WHERE WORTH THE MONEY.
Don't give me the "It's the market" bs, if you are NOT A championship team, signing a second option type player to near max/max money IS RIDICULOUS. Bottom line is, if you're not a championship team, you CAN'T AFFORD cripple your cap space by signing a non-franchise player to near max money/max money. If you can not afford to resign a second option type player and you ARE NOT a championship team, you need to either gut your team or find an alternative to the guy that walks.
Aside from getting draft picks, these small-market teams need to have a Plan A and a Plan B/C, instead of simply saying "oh f the cap, we're getting this the max".
Iggy trade rumors http://www.libertyballers.com/2011/2/22/2007479/how-good-is-andre-iguodala
Gay declining the 50 mil http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5346332
W/ that said, Memphis DID F THE GAME UP IN 2010, by giving Gay the max BEFORE FA STARTED. The Grizz offering Gay the max before FA started in Summer 2010, SET THE TONE IN 2010.
From there on, you saw several guys get the max, that are not max players. Those players are Joe Johnson and Amare. If the Grizz didn't offer Gay the max, than I doubt Gay would get 80 million. AT WORST, Gay would have got 75 million(5 million decrease) on the open market. So, the Grizz could have offered a fair deal( no more than a 5 year/65 mil deal is more than fair, and is 15 MIL MORE THAN GAY DECLINED IN 09). If Rudy Gay walks away, than the Grizz have a back-up plan.
That back-up plan, is Andre Iguodola.
Andre Iguodola is FAR CHEAPER( Iggy is owed 46 million over the next 3 years, assuming he accepts his player option in 2014, while Gay is owed 60 million over the next 4 years).
Aside from that, IGGY plays FAR BETTER DEFENSE and PASSES BETTER than Gay. Iggy is not great at getting his own shot, but can hit open shots and attack the rim. If the Grizz use Iggy as a back up plan to Gay, the dropoff is slim to none, and their team PROBABLY GETS BETTER with Iggy than with Gay.
Keep in mind, in 2010, the 76'ers had their coach fired and was coming off a 55 LOSS SEASON. So from the 76'ers standpoint, their looking TO REBUILD. If a team is looking to rebuild, than obviously they're trying to get rid of the high-paid vets(Iggy, Brand) to make room for new guys. Also, the 76'ers WERE LOOKING TO TRADE Iggy at the deadline in 2010. So Iggy wasn't untouchable in Summer 2010, and could have been attained.
I'm 100% confident that any package of Hasheem Thabeet + 2 first rounders, 2 first rounders, or 1 first rounder and Thabeet WOULD HAVE GOT Iggy sent to the Grizz in 2010. This was a realistic and fairly easy trade to get done at the time, yet this wasn't a possible. These GM's do not come up with ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS, that's why they simply sign guys NO WHERE WORTH THE MONEY.
Don't give me the "It's the market" bs, if you are NOT A championship team, signing a second option type player to near max/max money IS RIDICULOUS. Bottom line is, if you're not a championship team, you CAN'T AFFORD cripple your cap space by signing a non-franchise player to near max money/max money. If you can not afford to resign a second option type player and you ARE NOT a championship team, you need to either gut your team or find an alternative to the guy that walks.
Aside from getting draft picks, these small-market teams need to have a Plan A and a Plan B/C, instead of simply saying "oh f the cap, we're getting this the max".
Iggy trade rumors http://www.libertyballers.com/2011/2/22/2007479/how-good-is-andre-iguodala
Gay declining the 50 mil http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5346332
