What Does ANYONE Have To Do To Be Considered Greater Than Mike Jordan?

[xdominatorx]

Phil Jackson will have the answer

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

nobody will be better than jordan




- 6 Rings
- 5 MVPs
- 6 Final MVPs
- Jordans completely changed the shoe game

 

[baller23217]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

He doesnt need 7 championships, Jordan kinda had incredible timing to be able to get 6 championships without a Finals loss.

If LeBron can win 4 straight championships and capture 3 more MVPs...he'll better than Jordan in my book.  

Incredible timing?  Think about who he had to beat...

 

[mjsaver]

Rise from the DEAD in 3 Days and 3 peat 3 times.

Seriously though, we're all too exposed to the legend & media coverage to ever REALLY be objective.


The fact that people are mentioning the ''Shoe Game'' in this discussion tells you its still too early to talk about it.

 

[lilpennymagicfan]

it's gonna be tough if not impossible for anybody to pass all mjs acolades.

I think its hard to compare players of different eras cuz you have different rules and diff teams etc.

One thing that should not be braught up in the arguement of who a better player is, how they globalize the sport, their shoes etc.... Shoes, endorsements and global icon status come from things you do on the court but gettin a shoe deal, a deal with hanes and a logo thats known world wide dont make him the best, what he did on the court did

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by Raise the Cup

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

If LeBron can win 4 straight championships

That's not happening.

It's possible....If he got somebody like Bosh to join him in Cleveland.He could do it.

Also why is Hakeem in this picture? He has 2 championships

 

[darthska]

Xtapolapacetl:

---

Because people have a mental illness where someone from their generation has to be considered the GOAT, even though all objective facts (championships, awards, stats, etc.) speak against their claim.. They will just overlook them.
Dude, chill.

Sometimes your posts provide a unique perspective that is well-said, and other times (like this time), your perspective is so skewed and full of angst, I can't help but wonder if you're serious.

Sure, it could be that millions of people have a mental illness that prevents them from acknowledging that someone outside of their generation is the greatest ever... ... ... ... OOOOORRRR... ... ... ... it could simply be that people are more inclined to lean towards that which they are familiar with and have a connection to, which isn't a mental illness at all; rather, human nature.

And there's always the possibility that even the objective have an opinion that would appear to be biased.

Or you can disregard both of those huge possibilities and just posite that everyone who grew up in the 90s and thinks Jordan is the GOAT has a mental illness.

 

[throwback1718]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by Raise the Cup

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

If LeBron can win 4 straight championships

That's not happening.

It's possible....If he got somebody like Bosh to join him in Cleveland.He could do it.

Also why is Hakeem in this picture? He has 2 championships

where do you see hakeem?

i think the person in the red jersey dunking is D. Wilkens

 

[JAYxSF415]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Xtapolapacetl:

---

Because people have a mental illness where someone from their generation has to be considered the GOAT, even though all objective facts (championships, awards, stats, etc.) speak against their claim.. They will just overlook them.

Dude, chill.

Sometimes your posts provide a unique perspective that is well-said, and other times (like this time), your perspective is so skewed and full of angst, I can't help but wonder if you're serious.

Sure, it could be that millions of people have a mental illness that prevents them from acknowledging that someone outside of their generation is the greatest ever... ... ... ... OOOOORRRR... ... ... ... it could simply be that people are more inclined to lean towards that which they are familiar with and have a connection to, which isn't a mental illness at all; rather, human nature.

And there's always the possibility that even the objective have an opinion that would appear to be biased.

Or you can disregard both of those huge possibilities and just posite that everyone who grew up in the 90s and thinks Jordan is the GOAT has a mental illness.

Ouch. That gave me a headache 

 

[mronegative]

MJ got famous because he looked wholesome and scored a ton. He got respect because he was gritty and clutch. He got infamous, because all of his vices were manly (stepping out a little/gambling). His size was a lot of his appeal too. Even though he was 6'6", he looked like a regular guy, compared to other players. He didn't have freakish muscles. He didn't look too short or too tall. So when he did these incredible things, anyone could imagine themselves as him.

LeBron can't do that. He's a monster. Kevin Durant can't do that. He's gangly. Dwayne Wade could've done it, but they spent too damn much on that '06 title. People see how human he is.

MJ might as well be the NBA icon, because his figure is the standard, but what he always achieved wasn't. He has another thing too, where the second he started winning titles, he never really stopped. By the time he came back to the Wizards, it was impossible to take that away from him.

If Shaq wasn't as big and didn't have such an ego or powerful persona, then Kobe would be in the discussion. All Kobe needed was a good big man and a solid 2nd scorer. Instead he got both in one and a lot more. Then Mitch Kupchak raped the team getting rid of him. Kobe could've skated in like DMX. Pac died and people saw X as the second coming. Didn't need to have that outward personality or be personable.  Just needed to show up and know that he was the man. But he stopped winning too early. Good thing, because I %!%@!$% hate Kobe.

 

[dland24]

Read Bill Simmons The Book of Basketball....this is addressed.

 

[billy hoyle]

the guy who gets 5 mvps, 7 rings, 6-7 finals MVPs, and a defensive player of the year.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

MJ got famous because he looked wholesome and scored a ton. He got respect because he was gritty and clutch. He got infamous, because all of his vices were manly (stepping out a little/gambling). His size was a lot of his appeal too. Even though he was 6'6", he looked like a regular guy, compared to other players. He didn't have freakish muscles. He didn't look too short or too tall. So when he did these incredible things, anyone could imagine themselves as him.

LeBron can't do that. He's a monster. Kevin Durant can't do that. He's gangly. Dwayne Wade could've done it, but they spent too damn much on that '06 title. People see how human he is.

MJ might as well be the NBA icon, because his figure is the standard, but what he always achieved wasn't. He has another thing too, where the second he started winning titles, he never really stopped. By the time he came back to the Wizards, it was impossible to take that away from him.

If Shaq wasn't as big and didn't have such an ego or powerful persona, then Kobe would be in the discussion. All Kobe needed was a good big man and a solid 2nd scorer. Instead he got both in one and a lot more. Then Mitch Kupchak raped the team getting rid of him. Kobe could've skated in like DMX. Pac died and people saw X as the second coming. Didn't need to have that outward personality or be personable.  Just needed to show up and know that he was the man. But he stopped winning too early. Good thing, because I %!%@!$% hate Kobe.

Interesting perspective. 
I gotta say, there are a few posts in here that are very thought provoking, and I'm impressed that this thread isn't full of the nonsensical fodder you'd usually come to find. Bravo, NT. 

I'm completely serious too.

 

[royster]

Two major things that, imo, pushed Jordan over many others was the fact that Jordan had "stories", you know the ones that make you go damn dude was extra nice on the court. Like the flu game, 69 against Boston, the head nod, GWinners, you know those stories. The 2nd thing is the fact that Jordan shut down all HOF'ers in his path to his own rings. There's a poster or something of everyone he stopped from getting rings Barkley, Malone, Stockton, etc. I feel that is another one of the things Roy mentioned that add vastly to that "Greatest" factor.

It would be tough, hopefully someone will come along....

 

[goldenarmz97]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

MJ got famous because he looked wholesome and scored a ton. He got respect because he was gritty and clutch. He got infamous, because all of his vices were manly (stepping out a little/gambling). His size was a lot of his appeal too. Even though he was 6'6", he looked like a regular guy, compared to other players. He didn't have freakish muscles. He didn't look too short or too tall. So when he did these incredible things, anyone could imagine themselves as him.

LeBron can't do that. He's a monster. Kevin Durant can't do that. He's gangly. Dwayne Wade could've done it, but they spent too damn much on that '06 title. People see how human he is.

MJ might as well be the NBA icon, because his figure is the standard, but what he always achieved wasn't. He has another thing too, where the second he started winning titles, he never really stopped. By the time he came back to the Wizards, it was impossible to take that away from him.

If Shaq wasn't as big and didn't have such an ego or powerful persona, then Kobe would be in the discussion. All Kobe needed was a good big man and a solid 2nd scorer. Instead he got both in one and a lot more. Then Mitch Kupchak raped the team getting rid of him. Kobe could've skated in like DMX. Pac died and people saw X as the second coming. Didn't need to have that outward personality or be personable.  Just needed to show up and know that he was the man. But he stopped winning too early. Good thing, because I %!%@!$% hate Kobe.

Wow, excellent post. MJ will always be considered the Gold Standard of the NBA due to his legacy on & off the court. The man revolutionized the game & his marketing team had most of us wanting to "Be like Mike." On a website like Niketalk, which has a forum dedicate to the man's footwear, we wont really find too many arguments dismissing him being the greatest of all-time although a case can be made for others. MJ happened to come around at the right time, Magic & Larry had reintroduced fans back to the Association & now Mike comes along & dethrones them both in 1991 while new fans draped in his apparel cheered vigorously while eating their happy meals.

Mike dominated in an era where the popularity of the sport combined with the perfect amount of media coverage turned him into a basketball deity. 

CBS1984Boston Celtics 4, Los Angeles Lakers 312.3
CBS1985Los Angeles Lakers 4, Boston Celtics 213.7
CBS1986Boston Celtics 4, Houston Rockets 214.1
CBS1987Los Angeles Lakers 4, Boston Celtics 215.9
CBS1988Los Angeles Lakers 4, Detroit Pistons 315.4
CBS1989Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 015.1
CBS1990Detroit Pistons 4, Portland Trail Blazers 112.3
NBC1991Chicago Bulls 4, Los Angeles Lakers 115.8
NBC1992Chicago Bulls 4, Portland Trail Blazers 214.2
NBC1993Chicago Bulls 4, Phoenix Suns 217.9
NBC1994Houston Rockets 4, New York Knicks 312.4
NBC1995Houston Rockets 4, Orlando Magic 013.9
NBC1996Chicago Bulls 4, Seattle Supersonics 216.7
NBC1997Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 216.8
NBC1998Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 218.7
NBC1999San Antonio Spurs 4, New York Knicks 111.3

The NBA's television contract with NBC began in 1990, which just happened to be the number 1 network at the time, always featured Chicago Bulls games. If he wasn't on, there were the multiple commercials, NBA Inside Stuff features, his Pro Stars cartoon, Video Games & even a number one movie. For once, basketball became the number 2 sport in the nation and Mike was the face of it all. With all this positive media combined with the level of success & achievement, how could anyone be greater than MJ? 
Furtunately for SG #23, the internet was in its infancy & stories such as him punching Steve Kerr in practice, his wild gambling or his extramarital affairs weren't relayed to multiple media outlets in seconds preserving the god-like status that many still revere today. 



If Jordan was a superstar today, this pic would be all over TMZ & we would be dealing with another Tiger Woods type situation. Tiger was the only athlete comparable to Mike in terms of wholesomeness & universal appeal due to his success combined with his squeaky clean image, unfortunately for Mr. Woods, he'll never attain that level again. In the media infused society that we live in today, there are just too many variables that won't allow anyone to surpass MJ's legacy...

 

[crobers 78]

I personally do not think this will happen in my lifetime. I am also glad you chose the disclaimer of leaving daniel son out of this topic, you are absolutely right on that! MJ took a no name team with marginal players to heights never seen before. He made Pip who he is now and a HOFER. He demanded and conquered much. His will, tenancity and hunger was off the charts so much that you have guys like daniel son who is still trying to emulate his every moves. MJ did all this in the face of the Bad Boys, showtime lakers, Celtics, etc etc the real NBA the 80's and 90's. The league now does not compare to the teams and defense back then so that makes a difference when someone is scoring 30 plus a night or winning rings currently not to mention no hand checking and def 3 seconds added.

The league now is watered down. Lebron is nice but if he does not win a ring this year I do not see him ever winning one. Bron's style of play will burn out in approx 5 more years tops. Bron has peaked and will not get any better IMO. MJ did everything well...he D'd up, he could shoot a three if needed, mid range was crisp, handles good, FT's above avg, HEART WAS OFF THE CHARTS...he had it all man. The game became too easy for him once he trumped Magic and stole that ring from the lakers he got bored with the game and left for a while plus to deal with his Dad's tragic death but to come back after being bored and that tragedy and give the Da Bulls 3 more rings was amazing not to mention all 3 consecutive.

I think the people who have a hard time realizing how great MJ was are the ones who did not watch him much from UNC to the mid 80's in the league til 97 nightly. If you did not watch him much during these times and his competition and just watch #8 and lebron now you will think these guys are better or could not see what's the differnce but it's a big difference. My point is if we have the NBA for the next few years playing on the level of the current D league now and you have supposed stars playing who somewhat resemble MJ as far as points and style, plse don't try to compare or be hella stupid and say these supposed stars are better once they start winning rings or win more rings than MJ because it should be apparent that they are doing so on a lesser stage with weaker competition thus the two cannot be compared is my point.

 

[crobers 78]

Originally Posted by westcoastsfinest


more championships.

 i kid i kid


IMO to be greater than jordan...its more than winning rings, medals and MVPs...you gotta become an icon and what i mean by that is globalizing the sport, revolutionizing the shoe game and endoresments to the max

i mean when everyone sees that jumpman logo almost everyone knows its mike...the fact is that he brought attention to the casual fans and non fans that dont even watch sports......................thats big shoes to fill which is why its unfair for players after mike to even be compared or mentioned in the same breath.

thats a lot of pressure for them


just my 2 cents

^^^ You hit it the nail right on the head! It does not get more simpler than this. If you are going to attempt to be silly enough and compare these guys now to MJ you cannot leave out all of the other things MJ did or just don't compare. MJ is so relevant still til this day and he has be gone for over years. If daniel son aka #8 left right now the league would be just fine and i bet he would not still be relevant 5 to 10 yrs later i bet. When i see cats like Lamar Odom, Ewing, Mark Jackson and many others i do not feel like naming wearing his clothes and shoes that speaks volumes! When Magic has been quoted and still says til this day MJ is the GOAT folks should listen. MJ was cut from a whole nother type of cloth and most people are D riding #8 to replace the void MJ left which cannot be replaced. Let's just try to enjoy what players we have now but i doubt there will be another MJ, Ali, or Michael Jackson i'm just sayin
  

 

[crobers 78]

Better yet without all the verbiage. Go get the ESPN magazine with MJ on it from two months ago and click on the link below and once someone trumps all the achievements by MJ in this link below in the 80's and 90's era then maybe, lol but obviously this cannot be done so the answer is a sweet NO!

http://michaeljordansworld.com/index.htm  

 

[mister friendly]

^^^ Gosh get off Michael Jordan's #^$

Eventually Michael will be passed it happens in every sport over time...Your kids and grandkids will have a new GOAT and be tired of your Jordan ^%* riding.

 

[hellomarco]

it's really hard to compare players from different generations/era but as of now, all i see is getting more awards and rings than him.

 

[crobers 78]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

He doesnt need 7 championships, Jordan kinda had incredible timing to be able to get 6 championships without a Finals loss.

If LeBron can win 4 straight championships and capture 3 more MVPs...he'll better than Jordan in my book.  

  ^  LOL! I'm sorry but please cut it out!

 

[crobers 78]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly


^^^ Gosh get off Michael Jordan's #^$

Eventually Michael will be passed it happens in every sport over time...Your kids and grandkids will have a new GOAT and be tired of your Jordan ^%* riding.

^^ your punishment is to read this whole magazine below for your silly remark.

  

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by crobers 78

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

He doesnt need 7 championships, Jordan kinda had incredible timing to be able to get 6 championships without a Finals loss.

If LeBron can win 4 straight championships and capture 3 more MVPs...he'll better than Jordan in my book.  

  ^  LOL! I'm sorry but please cut it out!

Why the heck do you think Lebron will have to win 7 titles before he passes Jordan in alot people's book?

Jordan never passed Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain's accomplishments. But he's the greatest?

So if Lebron could capture 4 straight NBA titles it would be accomplishment Jordan never did. Right? People would say "look he did something Michael Jordan never did" and then they would talk about how much more physicalyl impressive Lebron is than Jordan. They would also talk about how he has better all around stats then Jordan ever had and how he carried a team since high school.

Heck what if Kobe could 3 peat? He'd have 6 championships and two more Finals appearances than Jordan. People would argue that he's the greatest. Then people would argue about the lack of scoring titles and MVPs then you'd have people who would argue that he had to share the spotlight with a dominant big man and that you cant argue with his scoring prowess because after all he did score 81 points.....Jordan never scored that much.

The fact is people get tired of having the same GOAT and whenever somebody does anything close to Jordan accomplishments, people are gonna be ready to crown a new GOAT.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

This was a very good discussion.

I do wish I could die and fast forward 80 years to see the face of professional basketball. Like I was explaining to someone last week, sports fans have short memories even when someone is alive, so I am pretty sure once we all are dead that people of that day will find someone else to consider the goat.

Think about it like this. The same way many of us discredit Wilt's accomplishments because of the lack of relative competitive he had will probably be the same way people view Jordan's era once this world hits year 2100. Imagine how bland, boring, unathletic the 1980's - 1990's will be considered to people during those years.

I am sure the influx of PEDs and HGH will be in every potential athletes blood stream because their wild and crazy daddy wants their son to be a supreme athlete by time he is 12 years old. So not only will athleticism of Jordan's era not be comparable but there will be nobody left to really tell the story of what it was like to EXPERIENCE Mike.

It is cool to watch film on someone, but it is much different to live through their days. It is a different story to see how important they were to their sport and to pop culture. Once we are all dead, nobody will be able to know what it was like to live through the days of Mike.

So to those that think there will be another, I agree. There will always be another. And another. And another.

The same way Mike wasn't the first, he won't be the last. I like to call it generational bias.

 

[jinkazama]

slept on this thread...to me its simple. The NBA player that turns out to be greater than MJ will change the game the way MJ did. When MJ came in he was something people had never seen before...he wasn't Connie Hawkins or Moses Malone, or Kareem,Bird, Magic, or Dr. J...he had his own style, his own game, his own "swag" if you will and it turned the bball world upside down. As great as Kobe and Bron are they are basically carbon copies of MJ. That's not knocking them, MJ has influenced an entire generation of ballers.

To me that will define the person who turns out to be greater than MJ, they'll come on the scene and people will be like whoa...this dude does things we've never seen before...we can't really compare him to anybody because his game is so ill. That with long term sustained success in the form of MVP's and rings will define the next MJ IMO.