Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[me love nutella]

Yup, that is something I have noticed from Western media where they go off about Islamists and fundamentalists, but never on the fact that Israel is a fascist ethno-state that was established based on Jewish supremacy over non-Jews. I mean, the whole premise of Israel is based on some right to a land based on a religious text, as God is their real estate agent. It's wild.

 

[ballinsam23]

me love nutella did you see the interrogation videos of the captured Hamas? None are saying they are doing this because of oppression or for the Palestinians.

Look at their reasoning and what they’re saying. It’s multiple accounts of the same story.

Please don’t say these are hired actors.

 

[DLF]

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[DLF]

 

[moderndarwin]

I am actually curious ... how so? How has it been with what the U.S. has done as inflicting state-sponsored violence and terrorism making it the most secure the world has ever been?

Take the number of deaths caused by violence, war, poverty, and starvation > aka an early demise vs the number of people living on the planet. This is a simple mathematical ratio %.

Zoom it to 50 year time plots.
1975-2025 would be considered the safest point in human history.

That’s legit all i mean. No offense. Empathetic to the individual conflicts going on as numbers like this are meaningless when people are actually going through this stuff.

 

[me love nutella]

me love nutella did you see the interrogation videos of the captured Hamas? None are saying they are doing this because of oppression or for the Palestinians.

Look at their reasoning and what they’re saying. It’s multiple accounts of the same story.

Please don’t say these are hired actors.

This means nothing at all, as we know how it goes with Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) extracting a confession that then, to their surprise, turns out to be false.

'The Shin Bet breaks you. You'd be insane not to give a false confession'

***

www.haaretz.com

Tales of torture in Israel affirms need for sweeping Shin Bet legislation | Opinion | Editorial

***

www.haaretz.com

I thought I put a stop to Shin Bet torture. I was wrong

***

www.haaretz.com

Israel-Palestine: To end torture, Shin Bet interrogations must be filmed

Despite 1,300 torture complaints in the past two decades, no Shin Bet interrogator has been indicted

www.middleeasteye.net

Israel are master manipulators and in their torture techniques of their suspects. Nothing new. Now all of a sudden, these suspects are talking about the hospitals that Israel has been bombing non stop, but then denies it.

Also, let's say even if any of this is real, where in the world, does it give a green light to bomb hospitals for this? These tunnels are not only used for Hamas, but also to smuggle goods and services to the masses which have been restricted and crippled by the blockade and siege. They even smuggle sheeps, women's products and plastic chairs.

Israel's narratives and justifications for carpet bombing civilians and to destroy Gaza's infrastructure and basic services and necessities is all a ploy to get ya'll to justify their ethnic cleansing and genocide.

If Israel had ever found out for real there are Hamas tunnels under Israeli settlements, or hospitals, do you think they would bomb it?

 

[me love nutella]

The human shields myth has been debunked so many times and by reputable human rights organizations too:

Jeremy Bowen’s Gaza notebook: I saw no evidence of Hamas using Palestinians as human shields

The BBC's Middle East editor reports from Gaza.

www.newstatesman.com

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-conflict-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-gazans-deny-being-put-in-line-of-fire/30448511.html

State of Palestine: Unlawful and deadly: Rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian armed groups during the 2014 Gaza/Israel conflict - Amnesty International

During the Gaza/Israel conflict in July and August 2014, Palestinian armed groups fired thousands of rockets and mortars at Israel, in many cases directed towards Israeli civilians and civilian objects, in violation of international law. The conduct of Palestinian armed groups, including firing...

www.amnesty.org

“The Israeli authorities have claimed that in a few incidents, the Hamas authorities or Palestinian fighters directed or physically coerced individual civilians in specific locations to shield combatants or military objectives. Amnesty International has not been able to corroborate the facts in any of these cases.”

Have âHuman Shieldsâ Accusations Become an Excuse for War Crimes?

There is a growing realization that U.S. support for Israel is hampering U.S. diplomacy.

progressive.org

The Israeli claims have no basis in reality, and are just a way to demonize Palestinians and legitimize their indiscriminate bombardment of civilians. This is hardly the first time Israel has used this accusation to delegitimize their enemies.

 

[ntplayboy]

 

[ballinsam23]

I dont agree with anything you said.

When Hamas does not have military bases and operates their camps within the city itself, yes humans are used as shields. When tunnels are built under the city, HUMANS ARE THE SHIELDS. There are articles where missiles were found in the basement of a school years ago. You know what the Palestinians excuse was? "Its ok, school wasnt even in session and kids were off"

Hamas is a terrorist organization, always has been.

More kids will die. More Jews will be targeted all over the world. The cycle will repeat.

Bump this thread in a few years because nothing is being accomplished here.

 

[gry60]

Bump this thread in a few years because nothing is being accomplished here.

Because none of you are being honest.

She can't recognize that Palestine being led by Hamas wouldn't be a solution for peace or safety for Israelis, and you can't recognize that Israel has been acting very disingenuously with the backing of the West.

 

[IATT]

 

[me love nutella]

I dont agree with anything you said.

When Hamas does not have military bases and operates their camps within the city itself, yes humans are used as shields. When tunnels are built under the city, HUMANS ARE THE SHIELDS. There are articles where missiles were found in the basement of a school years ago. You know what the Palestinians excuse was? "Its ok, school wasnt even in session and kids were off"

Hamas is a terrorist organization, always has been.

More kids will die. More Jews will be targeted all over the world. The cycle will repeat.

Bump this thread in a few years because nothing is being accomplished here.

Ya, the school was vacant. So, they probably used it as a cache meanwhile to transfer it elsewhere.

I do not get the argument because then where are Hamas supposed to operate from? I also mentioned these tunnels are not only for Hamas operations, but also to smuggle goods and basic necessities to the masses because of a blockade and siege.

What did ya'll expect? No armed struggle or resistance against Israel's aggression and occupation? So Hamas are terrorists, but Israel doesn't commit state-sanctioned violence and terrorism that is even deadlier and more powerful? The ha Gazan population has been living under an occupation in a concentration camp since 2006, and they are not allowed to even have tunnels to smuggle goods and operate from?

Then let Israel disarm itself from its top notch surveillance, military backed by the West with the most advanced weapons, and their nuclear weapons. There is no equavalency here.

How come the Western pundits are fine with Ukrainians underground tunnels to fight Russia? But, Ukrainian guerillas are not terrorists right?

From Gaza to Ukraine: Three principles of underground warfare

Ukraine and Gaza have both utilized underground warfare in their conflicts with their respective adversaries.

www.jpost.com

 

[nonnative]

Because none of you are being honest.

She can't recognize that Palestine being led by Hamas wouldn't be a solution for peace or safety for Israelis, and you can't recognize that Israel has been acting very disingenuously with the backing of the West.

You might have had a point if this all started when Hamas took power. The democratically elected government of Israel has been doing this for 80 years now matter who's leading Palestine. So why should she or anyone else believe it would be different this time?

 

[Davey Magoo]

I have a ton of sympathy for the Palestinian people...always have.

They've been the victims of apartheid for decades.

But I hope that the members of Hamas, especially their leadership, rot in hell where they belong. They're nothing but bloodthirsty savages. The more I read about the attack on the music festival, the sicker I become.

That being said, I feel the same way about Benjamin Netanyahu and the far right wing of the Israeli government.

...they all lack humanity.

 

[me love nutella]

Because none of you are being honest.

She can't recognize that Palestine being led by Hamas wouldn't be a solution for peace or safety for Israelis, and you can't recognize that Israel has been acting very disingenuously with the backing of the West.

I never said Palestinians should be led by Hamas, I said let them pick and figure it out.

These were occupied people for 80+ years, with so much to unpack and progress to their own organic way on how to be governed.

However, the issue I have is the amount of foreign interference and meddling that has not let go of its grip in what has shaped the region and authoritarianism across the Middle East and Africa.

Hamas are just a symptom, and there are a heck lot more influential and powerful actors and factors at play than focusing on them. As you are aware, the Palestinian Authority has done NOTHING much in past decades to push for Palestinian statehood.

Also, ya'll are here just focusing on Hamas, when you had Palestinian SECULAR and COMMUNIST militias at their peak hijacking planes (I think Palestinian militias were the first to ever do it), taking hostages from Olympics and embassies, and then came the suicide bombings (do not remember if that started with the secular or religious militias).

Whether SECULAR or RELIGIOUS Palestinian factions governing will not be the Western version of 'democracy' that Israel or the West would be keen on, unless it is their puppet.

 

[getback]

How come the Western pundits are fine with Ukrainians underground tunnels to fight Russia? But, Ukrainian guerillas are not terrorists right?

If they're targeting civilians, they're terrorists. So seems like Israel, Palestine, Ukraine and Russia are all guilty of some form of terrorism.

 

[me love nutella]

You might have had a point if this all started when Hamas took power. The democratically elected government of Israel has been doing this for 80 years now matter who's leading Palestine. So why should she or anyone else believe it would be different this time?

Not only that, one of the factors Israel succeeded in establishing itself was through violence and has been able only to sustain and maintain itself through violence.

Seriously, watching all this rhetoric on Hamas now, is the EXACT same when the PLO were at the forefront of the Palestinian resistance and fighting for Palestinian statehood. Then, when the PLO were quelled and co-opted and bought out by the West and Israel, and Hamas became more prominent in power, now they want to quell Hamas, not knowing even if they do, there will be a Hamas 2.

 

[me love nutella]

If they're targeting civilians, they're terrorists. So seems like Israel, Palestine, Ukraine and Russia are all guilty of some form of terrorism.

I agree with this, but I think in the West, they will only label ONE side terrorists, which tend to be the weaker ones with less power who are fighting back their terrorism through terrorism.

 

[moderndarwin]

seems like lots of protests going on is it helping move the needle

 

[getback]

I agree with this, but I think in the West, they will only label ONE side terrorists, which tend to be the weaker ones with less power who are fighting back their terrorism through terrorism.

Yeah that's the Islamophobia effect that exists here.

In the same way they hate to categorize mass shooters as terrorists.

 

[DLF]

This article is nuts

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

[IATT]

 

[ahat]

I have a ton of sympathy for the Palestinian people...always have.

They've been the victims of apartheid for decades.

But I hope that the members of Hamas, especially their leadership, rot in hell where they belong. They're nothing but bloodthirsty savages. The more I read about the attack on the music festival, the sicker I become.

That being said, I feel the same way about Benjamin Netanyahu and the far right wing of the Israeli government.

...they all lack humanity.

 

[gry60]

You might have had a point if this all started when Hamas took power. The democratically elected government of Israel has been doing this for 80 years now matter who's leading Palestine. So why should she or anyone else believe it would be different this time?

Can you really argue that Palestinian leaders of the past (namely, Arafat and the PLO) haven't led their people on because "a better deal will be around the corner"? I mean, for all the praise that Oslo is getting today, let's remember that Arafat had few Arab leaders by his side after supporting the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq, being active in the Lebanon civil war, and trying to destabilize the Jordanian monarchy.

Can we recognize the role the PLO's past is playing in the inability of Palestinian authorities to be effectively supported by Arab nations?

Can we recognize that Hamas has been committing war crimes (indiscriminate targeting of civilian centers)? The same ones Israel has been committing?

Can we recognize that given the unpopularity of Bibi and his coalition, attacking left-leaning Israelis was not a move to be praised if the overall outcome of the resistance is peace and a free Palestine? Can we agree that when your enemy is divided, the worst thing you can do is give them a reason to unite against you?

Can we recognize the problematic slogan that is "from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea, Palestine will be free?" Anyone care to pick up a map and figure out what that's supposed to mean?

I stand by what I said. Given that the playbook for successful resistance has been written in many places throughout the last century, and given what we know about the inability of the international community to enforce international law, it's insane to think that Hamas' current strategy will bear fruit for the Palestinian people.