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That 143 reception season was plain nasty.
Petyon Manning will go down as the GOAT
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 39478,
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Dre, yea you right, forgot about that...
and there was just a thread on here not too long ago with dudes making the argument about Marvin wasnt an elite WR...
and there was just a thread on here not too long ago with dudes making the argument about Marvin wasnt an elite WR...
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w/e yall feel about manning / brady is yall opinion but mannings season of 49 td > Brady's 50 ... FACT ... and not a point of discussion ... wayne wasin the league for only a few years at that point, stokley in the slot wasn't a pro bowler or star receiver ... just like manning excelled in the regularseason so did MARVIN ... WHEN THE PLAYOFFS CAME HE GOT LOCKED UP AND MANNING WOULD FORCE IT TO HIM (NOT MAKING AN EXCUSE) ... played poorly trying to get theball to this #1 receiver ...
you can just see it now ... when he plays he gets the ball to everyone as he feels like it ... there is no ego ... no 1 to keep happy ... and he is playingnear his 49td level .... its takin' 12 years but people are finally taking notice it seems ...
This dude is scoring on 1 min drives like its no ones business now ... 2 min drill is perfected ... i will not say anything about GOAT talk ... fact is he isthe best in the game right now ... just appreciate it ...
some of his playoffs failures are his fault and some aren't ... is it tougher to play feeling like you can't make a mistake b/c you dont have a strongdefense behind you ... throwing the ball at the goaline instead of running b/c having no faith in the run game ... it happens and his record is what it is ...
14 reg seasons wins and counting ... but i like most of you are looking to see what they do in this year's playoffs esp. with the homefield advantage thatthey will have ... discussion to be resumed @ end of season
you can just see it now ... when he plays he gets the ball to everyone as he feels like it ... there is no ego ... no 1 to keep happy ... and he is playingnear his 49td level .... its takin' 12 years but people are finally taking notice it seems ...
This dude is scoring on 1 min drives like its no ones business now ... 2 min drill is perfected ... i will not say anything about GOAT talk ... fact is he isthe best in the game right now ... just appreciate it ...
some of his playoffs failures are his fault and some aren't ... is it tougher to play feeling like you can't make a mistake b/c you dont have a strongdefense behind you ... throwing the ball at the goaline instead of running b/c having no faith in the run game ... it happens and his record is what it is ...
14 reg seasons wins and counting ... but i like most of you are looking to see what they do in this year's playoffs esp. with the homefield advantage thatthey will have ... discussion to be resumed @ end of season
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Harrison played 12 games the 1st year Peyton was there.
First 2 years without Peyton:
1996: 64 catches, 836 yards, 8 TDs
1997: 73 catches, 866 yeards, 6 TDs
Peyton era
1998: 59 catches, 776 yards, 7 TDs (12 games)
1999: 115 catches, 1663 yards, 12 TDs
2000: 102 catches, 1413 yards, 14 TDs
2001: 109 catches, 1524 yards, 15 TDs
2002: 143 catches, 1722 yards, 11 TDs
2003: 94 catches, 1272 yards, 10 TDs (15 games)
2004: 86 catches, 1113 yards, 15 TDs
2005: 82 catches, 1146 yards, 12 TDs (15 games)
2006: 95 catches, 1366 yards, 12 TDs
2007: 20 catches, 247 yards, 1 TD (5 games)
2008: 60 catches, 636 yards, 5 TDs (15 games)
First 2 years without Peyton:
1996: 64 catches, 836 yards, 8 TDs
1997: 73 catches, 866 yeards, 6 TDs
Peyton era
1998: 59 catches, 776 yards, 7 TDs (12 games)
1999: 115 catches, 1663 yards, 12 TDs
2000: 102 catches, 1413 yards, 14 TDs
2001: 109 catches, 1524 yards, 15 TDs
2002: 143 catches, 1722 yards, 11 TDs
2003: 94 catches, 1272 yards, 10 TDs (15 games)
2004: 86 catches, 1113 yards, 15 TDs
2005: 82 catches, 1146 yards, 12 TDs (15 games)
2006: 95 catches, 1366 yards, 12 TDs
2007: 20 catches, 247 yards, 1 TD (5 games)
2008: 60 catches, 636 yards, 5 TDs (15 games)
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Someone said his name should not be placed amongst the all-time greats.
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It's a damn shame what Ty Law and the Pats did to that man
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Look at those numbers from 99 to 06
disgusting
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Right, I was pointing out that by using the Cassell argument in terms of Young filling in for an injured Montana that it would diminishMontana's claim to the greatest of all time. I personally don't put much weight into either argument, but if you believe that Cassell affectedBrady's legacy then Montana deserve to be discussed as well.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
im sorry...i didnt see matt cassel in the superbowl, break the single season TD record, etc etc.
not to mention the fact that much of brady's true "magic" came pre-moss, pre-welker, pre-"dependable" rb (and i use that term very loosely)
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Peyton Manning has a great chance to go down as the GOAT. You can give this guy any set of receivers and he'll still put up some crazy numbers. This guywill be sticking around to break records for a while thanks to his O-line, he rarely gets touched.
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if u don't think bill is the main reason for the pats' success, i dont' know what to say. they went 10-6 with matt cassell for godsakes. a no name. and bill earned that dude a contract and a starting position in this league.Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez
There are a lot of valid points in this thread but some of these comments are just plain ridiculous.
OK, you guys give credit to Bellichek's defense for Brady's 3 titles. Where the !$@# was Bellichek's defense in 2007 when Brady threw 50 TDs, the Pats were crapping on the whole league and went 16-0 in the regular season? The only reason the Pats D had good numbers that year is because they were on the field maybe 15 minutes a game. If "Bellichek's D" showed up in the Super Bowl, Brady would have 4 rings right now. He left the field with the lead and his D let Manning and Giants march down the field and win the game with little time left on the clock.
And this guy that said Manning's WRs werent that good. Uh, Marvin Harrison? A dude that put up nice #'s even before Manning got in the league. Reggie Wayne? Look at Brady's WRs before he got Moss and Welker. He won 3 rings with those guys. He almost won a ring with Riccochet Caldwell as his #1 option
At the end of the day, I'll take the guy with 3 rings and a 14-3 playoff record over the more talented guy who's gone 7-8 in the playoffs and been erratic in big games.
it's the overall system and the type of intensity/intangible that bill instills in all those damn pats players. the pats are 3-2 right now. and don'ttell me it's b/c of brady b/c he's very average right now.
and look at what his students are spreading. mcdaniels in denver -> best defense right now. and that's why they're 5-0. kyle orton has very littlepressure playing behind that defense. are we gonna say orton is one of the best RIGHT NOW b/c he has a 5-0 record?
DeadsetAce
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cosign, man. i dont get it.Originally Posted by koolbarbone
Right, I was pointing out that by using the Cassell argument in terms of Young filling in for an injured Montana that it would diminish Montana's claim to the greatest of all time. I personally don't put much weight into either argument, but if you believe that Cassell affected Brady's legacy then Montana deserve to be discussed as well.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
im sorry...i didnt see matt cassel in the superbowl, break the single season TD record, etc etc.
not to mention the fact that much of brady's true "magic" came pre-moss, pre-welker, pre-"dependable" rb (and i use that term very loosely)
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dude did u even watch how cassell play last year? the pats played conservative ball with him for the most part, and relied on their defense. andthey went 10-6.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
cosign, man. i dont get it.Originally Posted by koolbarbone
Right, I was pointing out that by using the Cassell argument in terms of Young filling in for an injured Montana that it would diminish Montana's claim to the greatest of all time. I personally don't put much weight into either argument, but if you believe that Cassell affected Brady's legacy then Montana deserve to be discussed as well.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
im sorry...i didnt see matt cassel in the superbowl, break the single season TD record, etc etc.
not to mention the fact that much of brady's true "magic" came pre-moss, pre-welker, pre-"dependable" rb (and i use that term very loosely)
steve young on the other hand basically did whatever he wants. his QB ratings were 100+ for like 4 years straight.
BIG difference. also steve played a little before so we know who he is. cassel was a NOBODY. everyone thought the pats were done when brady went down. theywent 10-6.
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A few things.....
-Football is the ultimate team sport. When comparing two players, SB rings are not nearly as good a reasoning as a lot of NT makes them out to be. This is NOTthe NBA. Saying Brady is better strictly because he has 3 rings to Peyton's 1 is like saying Kevin Faulk is a better running back than Marshall Faulk.
-50>49 is not a very good reason either. Peyton Manning was sitting out entire 4th quarters and almost the entire game of week 17, when Tom Brady wasthrowing 50 yard bombs late in games that they were already dominating. If Brady sat out as much as Peyton did, or didnt run up the score as much as he did, hewould have had like 40 touchdowns that season. Maybe.
-You guys are nuts if you think Peyton has had a D during his career. Peyton has had to win games all by himself, not rely on his defense or kicker.
Regardless of Super Bowl rings, Peyton Manning plays the quarterback position at a higher level than it has ever been played.
-Football is the ultimate team sport. When comparing two players, SB rings are not nearly as good a reasoning as a lot of NT makes them out to be. This is NOTthe NBA. Saying Brady is better strictly because he has 3 rings to Peyton's 1 is like saying Kevin Faulk is a better running back than Marshall Faulk.
-50>49 is not a very good reason either. Peyton Manning was sitting out entire 4th quarters and almost the entire game of week 17, when Tom Brady wasthrowing 50 yard bombs late in games that they were already dominating. If Brady sat out as much as Peyton did, or didnt run up the score as much as he did, hewould have had like 40 touchdowns that season. Maybe.
-You guys are nuts if you think Peyton has had a D during his career. Peyton has had to win games all by himself, not rely on his defense or kicker.
Regardless of Super Bowl rings, Peyton Manning plays the quarterback position at a higher level than it has ever been played.
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Originally Posted by nyk buc
dude did u even watch how cassell play last year? the pats played conservative ball with him for the most part, and relied on their defense. and they went 10-6.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
cosign, man. i dont get it.Originally Posted by koolbarbone
Right, I was pointing out that by using the Cassell argument in terms of Young filling in for an injured Montana that it would diminish Montana's claim to the greatest of all time. I personally don't put much weight into either argument, but if you believe that Cassell affected Brady's legacy then Montana deserve to be discussed as well.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
im sorry...i didnt see matt cassel in the superbowl, break the single season TD record, etc etc.
not to mention the fact that much of brady's true "magic" came pre-moss, pre-welker, pre-"dependable" rb (and i use that term very loosely)
The fact that you don't realize that you destroyed your entire argument amuses me.
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no thanks his daddy saying go don't be a hero ... dude releases the ball extra early ... hence the happy feet when people came around him ... dude hatesbeing breathed on yet alone getting sacked ... just like eli ... home videos prove this also ... dude cried when he got touched in the backyard
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Until the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by dreClark
It's a damn shame what Ty Law and the Pats did to that man
exactly as much as it was peyton ... the dynamics changed once the playoff arrived ... they all struggled in the playoffs ... int, fumbles, o-line struggles,bad D ... i've hated marvin for mad long b/c of his playoffs disappearances ... unfairly i'll now admit but still son was swayze when the 2nd seasonstarted ...
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No one is saying Brady > Manning just based off of the 50 TD season. I pointed it out because dudes were basically saying that Brady has 3 rings becauseBellichek's defense won those rings for him. Brady's 50 TD season showed that the Patriots could dominate this league with Tom Brady as their offensivefocal point.
At the end of the day, you want your QB to make big plays for your team when it matters most - in the playoffs. Manning has way better regular season numbersthan Brady but Brady's playoff resume is more impressive than P. Manning's.
You say that the "3 rings > 1" argument is invalid because football is the ultimate team sport. I guess I can accept this argument. I can alsoaccept the argument that since football is a team sport, Brady's 14-3 record is due in large part to him playing on a better team than Manning (7-8 playoffrecord).
Lets look at their individual playoff stats. Manning has thrown 22 TDs and 17 INTs in 15 playoff games. Brady has thrown 26 TDs and 12 INTs in 17 playoff games(one of the games he came in halfway to replace an injured Bledsoe). Doesnt Brady's superior individual playoff stats mean something in the context of thisBrady vs. Manning debate?
dreClark, I only brought up Marvin Harrison because some dude said that Manning never had a HOF WR. Harrison obviously put up amazing numbers thanks to Peytonbut I was just pointing out that Marvin Harrison was a good player even before Manning got there.
1996: 64 catches, 836 yards, 8 TDs
1997: 73 catches, 866 yeards, 6 TDs
You telling me those aren't good numbers for a 1st and 2nd year WR in the NFL on a bad team (in 1997 atleast) with Jim Harbaugh as your QB? The point isMarvin showed all the signs of being a good WR and getting Manning allowed him to become a great WR.
DeadsetAce
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beat me to it.Originally Posted by JsindaA
Originally Posted by nyk buc
dude did u even watch how cassell play last year? the pats played conservative ball with him for the most part, and relied on their defense. and they went 10-6.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
cosign, man. i dont get it.Originally Posted by koolbarbone
Right, I was pointing out that by using the Cassell argument in terms of Young filling in for an injured Montana that it would diminish Montana's claim to the greatest of all time. I personally don't put much weight into either argument, but if you believe that Cassell affected Brady's legacy then Montana deserve to be discussed as well.Originally Posted by DeadsetAce
im sorry...i didnt see matt cassel in the superbowl, break the single season TD record, etc etc.
not to mention the fact that much of brady's true "magic" came pre-moss, pre-welker, pre-"dependable" rb (and i use that term very loosely)
The fact that you don't realize that you destroyed your entire argument amuses me.
theres a reason we went conservative after a record breaking year
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Originally Posted by YoungTriz
facts need to be proven, not an opinion..
oh boy ... selective memory FTL ...
[table][tr][td]2004[/td] [td]IND[/td] [td]16[/td] [td]336[/td] [td]497[/td] [td]67.6[/td] [td]4557[/td] [td]9.2[/td] [td]49[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]10[/td] [td]121.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][td]2007[/td] [td]NWE[/td] [td]16[/td] [td]398[/td] [td]578[/td] [td]68.9[/td] [td]4806[/td] [td]8.3[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]69[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]117.2[/td] [/tr][/table]
hmmm less pass attempts b/c he was sitting out entire quarters, halves ... higher rating, 1 less td, higher yards per pass attempt ...
acting like peyton wouldn't have dropped 60 that year ...
i'll be objective and say that pats were playing for 16-0, colts were in playoffs and DIDN'T run up the score
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fact: the GOAT needs to do more than play well in the regular season
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^^^ you can say what if or what not all you want...you can only guess what he could have done... but he didnt... thats like me saying give moss/welker alongwith brady a couple more years so they can have the same chemistry and see what they can do... it was their first year playing together and they put up good#'s....
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we not talking about chemistry
ANYWAYS ... he is not the GOAT ... and needs more rings to be in that discussion ... best QB of this generation YES definitely ... 1 more ring and he's inelite company ... if were 2 win 2 more then GOAT would be something worth mentioning while he is still playing ... when his career is said and done we canresume this discussion ...
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montana>favre>elway>marino>young>manning>unitas>brady>naimeth
i think thats all i probably forgot one
i think thats all i probably forgot one
