The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[mgrand15]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

That says it all.

I wish the players were clearer in their stance but what it looks like to me is that their upset that they didn't get a fair negotiation. It's not even really about the specific money or the system but the owners and players should be working together - one side shouldn't be trying to crush the other side. Doing this is the only thing that would hurt the owners as 1. we don't really know what system'll come out of this and 2. a lost NBA season hurts every owners pockets in some way or another. The majority of people don't really care about the lockout and lost interest in the NBA is not a good thing for the owners, I imagine this especially applies to cities where hockey could take over.

Stern and everyone else is asking why'd the union wait until now to do this. I'm sure the union is wondering why the owners waited until 1 month before the season to start "negotiating." If they started negotiating right after the NBA Finals, everything would've gotten done faster. Instead the owners wanted to wait until the players missed a paycheck to see if they'd break down. Don't blame this entirely on one side. Both sides have blood on their hands but I just can't side with the owners when they've been trying to bully the players from the start and they're not really losing money by owning a team.

Stern threatened to void all contracts if the union decertified. I'm guessing it was a bluff because things'll probably get A LOT worse with everyone as free agents. Imagine the chaos with EVERYONE as a free agent? How mad are small market teams gonna be when all the superstars team up in major cities?

Will anyone halfway decent ever play for Charlotte after MJ lost the trust of all the players?

 

[mgrand15]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

That says it all.

I wish the players were clearer in their stance but what it looks like to me is that their upset that they didn't get a fair negotiation. It's not even really about the specific money or the system but the owners and players should be working together - one side shouldn't be trying to crush the other side. Doing this is the only thing that would hurt the owners as 1. we don't really know what system'll come out of this and 2. a lost NBA season hurts every owners pockets in some way or another. The majority of people don't really care about the lockout and lost interest in the NBA is not a good thing for the owners, I imagine this especially applies to cities where hockey could take over.

Stern and everyone else is asking why'd the union wait until now to do this. I'm sure the union is wondering why the owners waited until 1 month before the season to start "negotiating." If they started negotiating right after the NBA Finals, everything would've gotten done faster. Instead the owners wanted to wait until the players missed a paycheck to see if they'd break down. Don't blame this entirely on one side. Both sides have blood on their hands but I just can't side with the owners when they've been trying to bully the players from the start and they're not really losing money by owning a team.

Stern threatened to void all contracts if the union decertified. I'm guessing it was a bluff because things'll probably get A LOT worse with everyone as free agents. Imagine the chaos with EVERYONE as a free agent? How mad are small market teams gonna be when all the superstars team up in major cities?

Will anyone halfway decent ever play for Charlotte after MJ lost the trust of all the players?

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by Wongtouski

Go watch the Press Conference on NBA.com, the players are smiling and laughing as they're gathering behind the podium, they don't seem to know what sort of crap they've gotten themselves into..........also watch for the IDIOTS wearing a backpack and Kobe is wearing shades. They've lost touch with reality.

So these actions shows that they are not in touch with reality?

 I slightly understand where you ar coming from, but appearance has nothing to do with anything right now.

  

 

[doitallpaul]

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

 

[doitallpaul]

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

 

[tonelow]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Great, more of this bs. 

 

Yes, people have lots of tough jobs, and people pay 20 dollars for parking, 75 dollars for a chair, 9 dollars for a beer, 8 dollars for a hot dog, 60 dollars for a shirt, and 35 dollars for a hat, to watch that person do their job.  Oh and by the way, it's more like MILLIONS of people, pay those prices, to see those people do their jobs.  All paying similar, or even MORE money than what I just listed. 

A teacher is more important, but nobody watches them do their job for fun when they are trying to relax. 


GET THIS @#$% THRU YOUR HEADS PEOPLE.  STOP COMPARING NBA TO ACTUAL JOBS, I WAS NOT "DRAFTED" TO MY COMPANY, NOR WERE ANY OF YOU, YOU CHOOSE WHERE YOU WORK SO LONG AS THEY OFFER EMPLOYMENT, THIS IS NOT THE SAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


  

THISSSS! God im so sick of that argument. It's not even close, almost as tasteless as people comparing the owners to plantation owners. The players are the product... The star players make the league, if Kobe and LeBron werent around do you think the league would be making as much off of TV deals?? The NBA, more than any other league markets their star players, they thrive on it. So now theyre gonna turn around and say youre expendable when its time for a deal?? FOH

 

[tonelow]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Great, more of this bs. 

 

Yes, people have lots of tough jobs, and people pay 20 dollars for parking, 75 dollars for a chair, 9 dollars for a beer, 8 dollars for a hot dog, 60 dollars for a shirt, and 35 dollars for a hat, to watch that person do their job.  Oh and by the way, it's more like MILLIONS of people, pay those prices, to see those people do their jobs.  All paying similar, or even MORE money than what I just listed. 

A teacher is more important, but nobody watches them do their job for fun when they are trying to relax. 


GET THIS @#$% THRU YOUR HEADS PEOPLE.  STOP COMPARING NBA TO ACTUAL JOBS, I WAS NOT "DRAFTED" TO MY COMPANY, NOR WERE ANY OF YOU, YOU CHOOSE WHERE YOU WORK SO LONG AS THEY OFFER EMPLOYMENT, THIS IS NOT THE SAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


  

THISSSS! God im so sick of that argument. It's not even close, almost as tasteless as people comparing the owners to plantation owners. The players are the product... The star players make the league, if Kobe and LeBron werent around do you think the league would be making as much off of TV deals?? The NBA, more than any other league markets their star players, they thrive on it. So now theyre gonna turn around and say youre expendable when its time for a deal?? FOH

 

[thatpersianguy]

Originally Posted by Statis22

How do some players reps didn't know what what was in the proposal till this morning though? That is disgusting & negligent to me.

Again do these players REALLY know what they're fighting for if some of their colleagues are that careless?

True, a lot of it is just "following the leader" and ignorantly supporting the union.

I'm so bummed though.

 

[big j 33]

The hilarious part about the threat of voiding contracts, wouldn't that be awful for small market teams? If the playing field was level and it was an entire league of free agents, how many would seek out Minny or Cleveland?

 

[mgrand15]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by soychulo

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Stern looked way too pleased in his interview, he was relishing in putting down Hunter and the union. I understand coming across as confident, but his smugness was plain as day.. didn't seem like a commish who was responsible for a disaster in his league.

He looked pleased because he made the opposition play its final hand.  The players are out of moves.  Decertification = checkmate.
My thoughts on this:  Really wanted a season.  Last year was too good not to have an encore.  The players got on my nerves this round of bargaining.  You are employees, not equal business partners.  Actually players are products with a shelf life.  You are only good for so long.  You had no investment in the business venture before you started playing and for the majority you will have none after you finish.  We all wish these products didn't have a shelf life.  I'd much rather be watching MJ, Bird and Magic battling in their prime for the next 20 years than alot of the chuckleheads we're stuck with now.  But bodies age and wear out and with that goes athletic performance.  

Durant's quote about how much revenue does a teacher generate compared to basketball players was tasteless.  He's have served himself better by not replying to the question.  There are thousands of businesses who have employees that generate them income and few are compensated the way professional athletes are taken care of. 

As someone who has been both an employee and a business owner I find it laughable that employees decide they will be setting the terms of the relationship.  I'm sure most of us on here have had not so enjoyable jobs and have been paid little to do them.  We do what we have to until we worked our way into the decision making positions, or beyond that into ownership.

With that said these players are just out of touch with reality.  They are making a spectacle, loving the camera attention, thinking they are "making moves".  They just gave up all leverage.  Which brings me to another point:  Who are these players consulting with that is giving them this advice?

Some serious questions maybe someone can answer:

Does this decertification void all existing player contracts?

Will teams just have rights to players but no contracts if that is the case?

Great, more of this bs. 

 

Yes, people have lots of tough jobs, and people pay 20 dollars for parking, 75 dollars for a chair, 9 dollars for a beer, 8 dollars for a hot dog, 60 dollars for a shirt, and 35 dollars for a hat, to watch that person do their job.  Oh and by the way, it's more like MILLIONS of people, pay those prices, to see those people do their jobs.  All paying similar, or even MORE money than what I just listed. 

A teacher is more important, but nobody watches them do their job for fun when they are trying to relax. 


GET THIS @#$% THRU YOUR HEADS PEOPLE.  STOP COMPARING NBA TO ACTUAL JOBS, I WAS NOT "DRAFTED" TO MY COMPANY, NOR WERE ANY OF YOU, YOU CHOOSE WHERE YOU WORK SO LONG AS THEY OFFER EMPLOYMENT, THIS IS NOT THE SAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


  

To add to that:

No offense but ANYONE can become a teacher or a business owner like you are. A couple years of work/school, some money and literally 90% of the U.S. can do it. Teachers are 100% replaceable. You as a business owner and an employee are replaceable. NBA players are not as replaceable as you/we are. Basketball is a worldwide sport and the league consists of about 350 players. It takes a lifetime of dedication, natural talent, and great genetics to make it. They aren't compensated that well for no reason. It's about scarcity. Basic economics. The jealousy some people bring into this argument is disgusting - talking about the players should play for a teachers salary. Yeah, let's pay the players 70k a year while the owners make billions a year.

 

[thatpersianguy]

http://hoopshype.com/twitter/players.html

Some of these tweets are hilarious, others are

.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

No, 50/50 is the money paid as their salaries.  It's how the pie is divided.  Owners get their 50 percent to run the league, etc, the players 50 percent is paid as salary to the 430+ players.  If you add everyone's salaries last year, it would equal about 57% which is what the deal was at the time. 

Essentially the players would be earning 300 million or so less by getting 50%, and that part they had agreed too, it was other issues they are differening on. 

  

 

[franchise3]

SMDH

 

[franchise3]

SMDH

 

[dade b0y]

This will not end well at all for the players. Billy Hunter should have steered far away from Jeffrey Kessler, and tried to either continue to negotiate, or accept the deal as is. The deal that will be eventually be agreed to (possibly several months from now) will be so heavily favored towards the owners, they will have regreted rejecting this deal. It's just not worth it.

The reality is, this is exactly what the hardline owners wanted as now they can account for losses for a full season....

 

[dade b0y]

This will not end well at all for the players. Billy Hunter should have steered far away from Jeffrey Kessler, and tried to either continue to negotiate, or accept the deal as is. The deal that will be eventually be agreed to (possibly several months from now) will be so heavily favored towards the owners, they will have regreted rejecting this deal. It's just not worth it.

The reality is, this is exactly what the hardline owners wanted as now they can account for losses for a full season....

 

[ill steelo]

This is actually better from a decertification standpoint. Now we bypass that 45 day wait.

They'll probably sue the league tomorrow and we'll have to wait another 3-4 weeks to see whether the judge lifts the lockout. If not, then the players will sue for the wages they lost. If they win, they get triple.

Can't help but be to a little annoyed with the owners. The players agreed to their economic terms, but they try to run up the score by not conceding at all late in the negotiations on the system issues

despite the fact that the ratings show that fans heavily support the super teams. The league was as popular as its ever been the past 2 seasons.

Now we wait.

Highly doubt that Stern voids the contracts though. It would be complete mayhem.

 

[ill steelo]

This is actually better from a decertification standpoint. Now we bypass that 45 day wait.

They'll probably sue the league tomorrow and we'll have to wait another 3-4 weeks to see whether the judge lifts the lockout. If not, then the players will sue for the wages they lost. If they win, they get triple.

Can't help but be to a little annoyed with the owners. The players agreed to their economic terms, but they try to run up the score by not conceding at all late in the negotiations on the system issues

despite the fact that the ratings show that fans heavily support the super teams. The league was as popular as its ever been the past 2 seasons.

Now we wait.

Highly doubt that Stern voids the contracts though. It would be complete mayhem.

 

[mgrand15]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

No, 50/50 is the money paid as their salaries.  It's how the pie is divided.  Owners get their 50 percent to run the league, etc, the players 50 percent is paid as salary to the 430+ players.  If you add everyone's salaries last year, it would equal about 57% which is what the deal was at the time. 

Essentially the players would be earning 300 million or so less by getting 50%, and that part they had agreed too, it was other issues they are differening on. 

  

There's also like a bunch of money earned set aside that doesn't count for the split that goes straight to the owners. Something like 200 million is taken out of the pie for the owners, then they split it 50/50.

 

[mgrand15]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

No, 50/50 is the money paid as their salaries.  It's how the pie is divided.  Owners get their 50 percent to run the league, etc, the players 50 percent is paid as salary to the 430+ players.  If you add everyone's salaries last year, it would equal about 57% which is what the deal was at the time. 

Essentially the players would be earning 300 million or so less by getting 50%, and that part they had agreed too, it was other issues they are differening on. 

  

There's also like a bunch of money earned set aside that doesn't count for the split that goes straight to the owners. Something like 200 million is taken out of the pie for the owners, then they split it 50/50.

 

[doitallpaul]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

No, 50/50 is the money paid as their salaries.  It's how the pie is divided.  Owners get their 50 percent to run the league, etc, the players 50 percent is paid as salary to the 430+ players.  If you add everyone's salaries last year, it would equal about 57% which is what the deal was at the time. 

Essentially the players would be earning 300 million or so less by getting 50%, and that part they had agreed too, it was other issues they are differening on. 

  

thank you.

Who pays David Stern? Does he get a certain percentage or is it a set salary from each owner? It really is the star players who bringing the revenue. If I am looking to spend 50$ for a basketball ticket am I trying to go to the Lakers game or the Pacers? People want to see the star players play.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

Kyrie SMFH ...

Worse than Kyrie not playing, if there's no season or a severely shortened one, the Cavs made a huge mistake by taking Thompson instead of Valanciunas due to him not coming over this season.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

Kyrie SMFH ...

Worse than Kyrie not playing, if there's no season or a severely shortened one, the Cavs made a huge mistake by taking Thompson instead of Valanciunas due to him not coming over this season.

 

[doitallpaul]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Originally Posted by DoItAllPaul

Can someone explain what the 50/50 split would do for the players? The basketball related income is divided by the amount of players and they would each receive a distribution on top of their salaries?

I don't understand.

anything?

No, 50/50 is the money paid as their salaries.  It's how the pie is divided.  Owners get their 50 percent to run the league, etc, the players 50 percent is paid as salary to the 430+ players.  If you add everyone's salaries last year, it would equal about 57% which is what the deal was at the time. 

Essentially the players would be earning 300 million or so less by getting 50%, and that part they had agreed too, it was other issues they are differening on. 

  

thank you.

Who pays David Stern? Does he get a certain percentage or is it a set salary from each owner? It really is the star players who bringing the revenue. If I am looking to spend 50$ for a basketball ticket am I trying to go to the Lakers game or the Pacers? People want to see the star players play.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

The hilarious part about the threat of voiding contracts, wouldn't that be awful for small market teams? If the playing field was level and it was an entire league of free agents, how many would seek out Minny or Cleveland?

Yeah, Stern will def lose his job if things continue this way. You can literally end up with most of the superstars in the big markets.