The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[pmatic]

@AlexKennedyNBA Today's bargaining session was cancelled, but the two sides will meet on Tuesday. The owners may offer a new proposal, according to sources.

@AlexKennedyNBA Sources say that if a new proposal is delivered on Tuesday, @TheNBPA will give a presentation to players this Thursday in Las Vegas.

 

[duba169]

cautiously optimistic

 

[duba169]

cautiously optimistic

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I hope like hell that he is right, but 1 week for preseason? 

 

I have said before, and will again, I don't care how, why, or when, I just want a deal done with ZERO games missed.  I want a full season, just like the last 11 or however long it's been.  If they wanna play up the save our league card and be like the NFL, fine by me.  If it's mid November, and I still don't have basketball, Ima be pissed.  Those games might be meaningless, but that don't mean I don't want to see them played.  Know what I mean? 

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.  I'm a basketball junkie.  I'd take watching a meaningless NBA game over watching pretty much any other sport.  I'm happy to hear progress is being made, but I'm still not expecting a full season. 

  

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I hope like hell that he is right, but 1 week for preseason? 

 

I have said before, and will again, I don't care how, why, or when, I just want a deal done with ZERO games missed.  I want a full season, just like the last 11 or however long it's been.  If they wanna play up the save our league card and be like the NFL, fine by me.  If it's mid November, and I still don't have basketball, Ima be pissed.  Those games might be meaningless, but that don't mean I don't want to see them played.  Know what I mean? 

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.  I'm a basketball junkie.  I'd take watching a meaningless NBA game over watching pretty much any other sport.  I'm happy to hear progress is being made, but I'm still not expecting a full season. 

  

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

There will be no NBA before the New Year, I want so badly to be wrong, but I've said that from the beginning and honestly only us hardcore fans will even miss it. Football season overshadows everything.

This.  I went out to lunch today and I swear everyone within ear shot was having a conversation about fantasy football.  And I'm in L.A., where we don't even have an NFL team.  There are definitely a lot of people who will get along fine for a while without the NBA. 

  

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

There will be no NBA before the New Year, I want so badly to be wrong, but I've said that from the beginning and honestly only us hardcore fans will even miss it. Football season overshadows everything.

This.  I went out to lunch today and I swear everyone within ear shot was having a conversation about fantasy football.  And I'm in L.A., where we don't even have an NFL team.  There are definitely a lot of people who will get along fine for a while without the NBA. 

  

 

[pmatic]

Sources: No movement on major NBA issues

As the basketball world awaits a crucial phase of the NBA labor talks next week, the devil we don't know has been in the details of accelerated negotiations that concluded Thursday with a second 5 1-2 hour session in as many days. And while the tone and pace of talks has picked up, CBSSports.com has learned that there has been no formal movement in either side's position on the biggest sticking points in the deal: the split of revenues and the cap system.

According to five people briefed on the three days of high-level talks over the past two weeks, the two sides essentially are in the same place they've been since the owners' most recent formal proposal in late June: billions of dollars apart.

"I don't think they've made any progress there at all," one of the people briefed on the negotiations told CBSSports.com. "They're talking a lot, and the conversations are more cordial. But as far as the real numbers, I don't think there's anything there."

Before panic sets in, it is not necessarily a doomsday scenario that no new numbers have been agreed upon because, as two of the people with knowledge of the talks said, exchanging formal proposals was not the objective of this week's negotiations. This, in addition to the agreed upon strategy for neither side to discuss specific negotiating points, explains the vague answers given Thursday by union president Derek Fisher and deputy commissioner Adam Silver when pressed on whether new proposals have been exchanged.

"Ideas, proposals, concepts and numbers" have been discussed, Silver said, while Fisher said "tons of ideas" were exchanged. What this means is that Tuesday's full negotiating session including the complete bargaining committees for both sides could be extraordinarily significant. The larger meeting will serve as a litmus test for the concepts discussed in smaller groups consisting of Silver, commissioner David Stern, Spurs owner Peter Holt, deputy and general counsel Dan Rube for the owners and Fisher, executive director Billy Hunter, general counsel Ron Klempner, outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler and economist Kevin Murphy for the union.

"Next week's really important," one of the people briefed on the talks said.

But another person connected to the talks at the highest level stressed that the significance of Tuesday's meeting would be greatly enhanced only if one side or the other decided it was time to transform the ideas discussed at recent meetings into a formal proposal. Technically, it is the owners' turn to make one, as the players were the last side to do so June 30 before the lockout was imposed.

"The reality is, until one side or the other is ready to make significant movement, nothing is going to happen," the person said.

According to one of the people familiar with the talks, Fisher's statement Thursday about making sure "our general membership" agrees with ideas before he can "sign off on those type of deals" suggested that negotiators presented new concepts that must be vetted with a larger group of players before they can be negotiated further. The goal Tuesday will be to see if the conceptual, small-group discussions can provide any framework for the larger groups until the owners disperse for their Board of Governors meeting in Dallas. Both sides seem to be feeling a sense of urgency to present a significant status report to their constituents on Thursday, when the players also have scheduled a meeting in Las Vegas to update union members on the talks. 

It's when you consider the possibility that each side may prefer to report to its constituents that it is holding the line and not making any more concessions that the prospects for a breakthrough seem remote.

"They're bringing the full committees in to sit down with each other and see if they can make any progress by Thursday," one of the people with knowledge of the talks said. "They'll either say, 'Here, we've made progress and here's where we're at,' or, 'We're not making any progress and we're light years apart.'"

Sources say the two sides are trying to tackle the biggest obstacle first -- the split of revenues -- before fully addressing the system by which the money will be distributed. One of the people informed of the state of negotiations said the players have expressed a willingness to compromise on the split of revenues -- they received 57 percent under the previous deal and have proposed 54.3 percent as a starting point in a new collective bargaining agreement -- if they can keep many aspects of the current system in place, such as guaranteed contracts and contract lengths. But if asked to accept a dramatic decrease in their percentage of BRI and a curtailment of guarantees, rookie scale, cap exceptions and contract lengths, "I think the players would fight that to the end," one of the people said.

The owners' proposal to cut salaries and hold them steady at $2 billion a year "is a big point," one of the people said. "But the cap is an even bigger point. The players are willing to give back more if the structure and the NBA operating the way we've always known it stays the same or similar."

As Silver has said on more than one occasion, the owners are unified in their belief that they cannot continue operating under the current system.

The most recent concessions by the owners that were made public included a "flex-cap" with a $62 million midpoint and a sliding scale up and down -- similar to the cap system implemented in the NHL after a lockout that cost the entire 2004-05 season. On June 23, the players declined to counter that proposal after Hunter called the owners' demands "gargantuan" and said, "We just can't meet them." At the time, the owners also expressed a willingness to relax their insistence on eliminating fully guaranteed contracts -- which Hunter has called a "blood issue" for the players.

The players' most recent publicly known concessions included a $100 million-a-year salary reduction over a five-year CBA -- which Stern called "modest" and league negotiators view as more of a $100 million-a-year decrease in salary growth. Subsequently, the players offered a more owner-friendly split of future revenues and added a sixth year to their proposal, which Stern rejected June 30 because he said it would increase the average NBA player's salary from its current level of $5 million to $7 million by the end of the proposed deal.
Link

 

[pmatic]

Sources: No movement on major NBA issues

As the basketball world awaits a crucial phase of the NBA labor talks next week, the devil we don't know has been in the details of accelerated negotiations that concluded Thursday with a second 5 1-2 hour session in as many days. And while the tone and pace of talks has picked up, CBSSports.com has learned that there has been no formal movement in either side's position on the biggest sticking points in the deal: the split of revenues and the cap system.

According to five people briefed on the three days of high-level talks over the past two weeks, the two sides essentially are in the same place they've been since the owners' most recent formal proposal in late June: billions of dollars apart.

"I don't think they've made any progress there at all," one of the people briefed on the negotiations told CBSSports.com. "They're talking a lot, and the conversations are more cordial. But as far as the real numbers, I don't think there's anything there."

Before panic sets in, it is not necessarily a doomsday scenario that no new numbers have been agreed upon because, as two of the people with knowledge of the talks said, exchanging formal proposals was not the objective of this week's negotiations. This, in addition to the agreed upon strategy for neither side to discuss specific negotiating points, explains the vague answers given Thursday by union president Derek Fisher and deputy commissioner Adam Silver when pressed on whether new proposals have been exchanged.

"Ideas, proposals, concepts and numbers" have been discussed, Silver said, while Fisher said "tons of ideas" were exchanged. What this means is that Tuesday's full negotiating session including the complete bargaining committees for both sides could be extraordinarily significant. The larger meeting will serve as a litmus test for the concepts discussed in smaller groups consisting of Silver, commissioner David Stern, Spurs owner Peter Holt, deputy and general counsel Dan Rube for the owners and Fisher, executive director Billy Hunter, general counsel Ron Klempner, outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler and economist Kevin Murphy for the union.

"Next week's really important," one of the people briefed on the talks said.

But another person connected to the talks at the highest level stressed that the significance of Tuesday's meeting would be greatly enhanced only if one side or the other decided it was time to transform the ideas discussed at recent meetings into a formal proposal. Technically, it is the owners' turn to make one, as the players were the last side to do so June 30 before the lockout was imposed.

"The reality is, until one side or the other is ready to make significant movement, nothing is going to happen," the person said.

According to one of the people familiar with the talks, Fisher's statement Thursday about making sure "our general membership" agrees with ideas before he can "sign off on those type of deals" suggested that negotiators presented new concepts that must be vetted with a larger group of players before they can be negotiated further. The goal Tuesday will be to see if the conceptual, small-group discussions can provide any framework for the larger groups until the owners disperse for their Board of Governors meeting in Dallas. Both sides seem to be feeling a sense of urgency to present a significant status report to their constituents on Thursday, when the players also have scheduled a meeting in Las Vegas to update union members on the talks. 

It's when you consider the possibility that each side may prefer to report to its constituents that it is holding the line and not making any more concessions that the prospects for a breakthrough seem remote.

"They're bringing the full committees in to sit down with each other and see if they can make any progress by Thursday," one of the people with knowledge of the talks said. "They'll either say, 'Here, we've made progress and here's where we're at,' or, 'We're not making any progress and we're light years apart.'"

Sources say the two sides are trying to tackle the biggest obstacle first -- the split of revenues -- before fully addressing the system by which the money will be distributed. One of the people informed of the state of negotiations said the players have expressed a willingness to compromise on the split of revenues -- they received 57 percent under the previous deal and have proposed 54.3 percent as a starting point in a new collective bargaining agreement -- if they can keep many aspects of the current system in place, such as guaranteed contracts and contract lengths. But if asked to accept a dramatic decrease in their percentage of BRI and a curtailment of guarantees, rookie scale, cap exceptions and contract lengths, "I think the players would fight that to the end," one of the people said.

The owners' proposal to cut salaries and hold them steady at $2 billion a year "is a big point," one of the people said. "But the cap is an even bigger point. The players are willing to give back more if the structure and the NBA operating the way we've always known it stays the same or similar."

As Silver has said on more than one occasion, the owners are unified in their belief that they cannot continue operating under the current system.

The most recent concessions by the owners that were made public included a "flex-cap" with a $62 million midpoint and a sliding scale up and down -- similar to the cap system implemented in the NHL after a lockout that cost the entire 2004-05 season. On June 23, the players declined to counter that proposal after Hunter called the owners' demands "gargantuan" and said, "We just can't meet them." At the time, the owners also expressed a willingness to relax their insistence on eliminating fully guaranteed contracts -- which Hunter has called a "blood issue" for the players.

The players' most recent publicly known concessions included a $100 million-a-year salary reduction over a five-year CBA -- which Stern called "modest" and league negotiators view as more of a $100 million-a-year decrease in salary growth. Subsequently, the players offered a more owner-friendly split of future revenues and added a sixth year to their proposal, which Stern rejected June 30 because he said it would increase the average NBA player's salary from its current level of $5 million to $7 million by the end of the proposed deal.
Link

 

[pmatic]

By all accounts, a very important day ahead with negotiations.

In the meantime, why Rashard Lewis is the center of attention.

Why lockout is all about Rashard Lewis

The NBA lockout makes for some strange situations, such as the predicament Rashard Lewis found himself in Monday night at the Impact Basketball gym in Las Vegas.

"They got me at center," he said, pulling on his jersey and preparing to go to work in the paint against Derrick Caracter.

We all know Lewis as a forward, a 6-foot-10 forward who likes to shoot 3-pointers. As the tallest player on his team Monday, he was a center by default. And maybe for the time being, we should think of him as being at the center of the NBA lockout that has stretched beyond two months.

The owners can't stand the fact they've been operating under a system that calls for Lewis to make $22 million next season, when he'll be three years past his last All-Star Game appearance and coming off a knee-injury-shortened 57-game season.

And after reading this David Berri analysis of the NBA's economics in The Huffington Post, ask yourself whether it makes sense that the system doesn't allow LeBron James or Dirk Nowitzki to make more money than Lewis next season when they clearly brought more value to their teams than he did last season.

Just keep in mind how we got to this point: After the players agreed to a salary cap, a rookie wage scale, a maximum player salary and a luxury tax designed to slow the escalating contracts, can they really be expected to just say no to whatever money the owners kept offering?

Or, as Lewis puts it, "You sign me to a deal, you think I'm going to say, 'No, I deserve $50 [million] instead of $80 [million]?' I'm like, 'Hell, yeah.' I'm not going to turn it down. You can't blame the players. If anything, we don't negotiate the deal. We've got agents that negotiate the deals with the team. Y'all need to go talk to the teams and the agents."

Kinda makes sense, doesn't it? Sometimes you find the most logic the farther you get from the labor negotiations. Out here at the hastily assembled Impact League in Las Vegas, which will lasts through next week, there are healthy doses of common sense and optimism. Of course, the towers in this city were built on optimists. But in this case, the NBA players aren't wagering their money; they're investing their time and energy, hoping for a season that might or might not be played.

Guys fully capable of drawing an NBA salary -- including Corey Maggette, J.J. Hickson, Tony Allen and Jermaine O'Neal -- are out here playing for free ... but if you think about it, the stakes are higher than at any casino on the Strip. If there's no season, Lewis misses out on $22 million he'll never get back.

"But the lockout is not just about me losing a lot of money," Lewis said. "The [2010-11 season] we had in the NBA was a great season. The Memphis Grizzlies got in the playoffs ... and you didn't know who was going to win in the playoffs. From the Memphis Grizzlies to the Lakers, you had no idea who was going to win. Miami didn't win the championship. I'm sure fans are anticipating to see how they're going to do next year. The Boston Celtics, the Lakers, Kevin Durant, [Carmelo Anthony] in New York. 'Superman' [Dwight Howard] -- is he going to be in Orlando or L.A.? So much going on. I'm anticipating it myself -- and I play in the league."

The logical approach would be that no group of businessmen would want to halt that momentum. But you also realize there's no way rich men would keep putting up $300 million buy-ins to a league the NBA insists is losing money if they weren't confident the rules weren't about to change drastically.

That's why my level of optimism that the season will start on time sits below that of the players, who sounded pretty upbeat.

"There's going to be a season," Sebastian Telfair said. "The reason for me saying that is the players want to play and the owners, they enjoy the game just as much as we enjoy playing. At the end of the day, that will overshadow all of the business."

Jared Dudley, the Suns' player representative, took heart from the latest round of talks between the NBA and union leadership.

"The process has finally started," Dudley said. "This is the first time I've basically heard that both sides are saying: 'Let's try. Let's at least attempt it.' That's not saying that it can't turn sour by Tuesday , but the good thing is they've met a couple times, they know that we're having a meeting Thursday. I'm personally expecting, hopefully a proposal [from the owners] Tuesday, and that could hopefully be a start."

Some 70 players are expected to meet in Vegas on Thursday, to get a sense of where they stand. Right now, with a $190 million dispersal from the escrow account headed their way, and before their first pay date comes and goes without any money deposited into their accounts, the players are on firm ground. They have overseas options that weren't viable in the 1998 lockout. There's no reason to capitulate to the owners' demands at the moment.

The owners have had season ticket renewal funds sitting in their accounts all summer and don't have to issue any refunds or credits for missed games yet. So there's no urgency on their part. That's why I don't see a major breakthrough occurring this week.

Lewis has a much better sense for the business side of the game during this lockout than he had in the last one, when he was just out of high school, still staying at his home in Houston, awaiting his entry into NBA life. It would be in his best interest to push for the quickest deal possible and resume collecting paychecks. But he doesn't view this lockout as being about his own best interests.

"Guys before me or before us made the way for us to be successful, and I think we have to do the same thing for the young guys," Lewis said. "We can't say, 'Forget them.'"

On the other end is Isaiah Thomas, the rookie from the University of Washington. He's still waiting for his first NBA game -- and first NBA paycheck. He's here, but it's not like he hasn't played with NBA players before; he regularly hoops with locals such as Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson in his hometown of Seattle. They look after him enough to provide for his travel to Las Vegas for the Impact League. Right now he doesn't quite feel like he's left college yet. He is staying at home and even enrolled in a couple of courses this fall. He can't wait to become a professional.

"It's frustrating," he said. "But at the same time, I've just got to be patient. Usually with basketball players, you know what's next. With this, you don't know when you're going to be playing or if you're going to be playing at all."

He admits to not being versed in the details of the labor negotiations, much like Lewis 13 years ago. But Thomas knows enough to realize he can't expect the lavish paydays of the past.

"They were giving money away," Thomas said. "That's one thing. Being around the NBA players up in Seattle and just looking at guys' contracts, they were giving it away. I guess they're definitely not going to do that anymore."

You know what I can't wait to see? The new Isaiah Thomas in the NBA. In person he looks shorter than his listed 5-foot-9 ("That's what everybody says," he lamented), but every time the ball is in his hands, he makes good things happen, whether he's knocking down jumpers or driving the lane.

The games got more competitive as the day turned to night and the caliber of players improved. It culminated with a jumper at the buzzer by Mo Williams in the fourth game of the night, one that was energized by the antics of Damon Jones (yes, there was a Damon Jones sighting!).

The players are working out in the morning under trainer Joe Abunassar's program and then working on different things in the games at night. There's shape and then there's basketball shape.

Those who came out Monday night even witnessed Rashard Lewis making moves in the low post.

"It's really important to stay in shape," Lewis said. I remember last lockout, there were some guys who came in overweight."

Um, Shawn Kemp, anyone?

If nothing else, I can guarantee you Austin Daye won't get heavy. He could do continuous laps through the In-N-Out Burger drive-through and not gain weight.

There actually are some side benefits to the lockout. Lewis has had extra time to rehabilitate his knee and says it feels 10 times better than when his season ended. He has been able to spend extra time with his wife, whom he married Aug. 13. He took their daughter to her first day of school this month. He's spending time with their 1-year-old.

But there are the reminders that he won't get many more opportunities to be an NBA player. There are flecks of gray in his hair.

However, when you're around basketball players who are actually playing basketball, everyone seems a bit younger. Inside the gym, there is energy, enthusiasm and optimism.

"Once the lockout ends, it's time to go," Lewis said.

He framed it in terms of when, not if. The rest of us can only hope.
Link

 

[pmatic]

By all accounts, a very important day ahead with negotiations.

In the meantime, why Rashard Lewis is the center of attention.

Why lockout is all about Rashard Lewis

The NBA lockout makes for some strange situations, such as the predicament Rashard Lewis found himself in Monday night at the Impact Basketball gym in Las Vegas.

"They got me at center," he said, pulling on his jersey and preparing to go to work in the paint against Derrick Caracter.

We all know Lewis as a forward, a 6-foot-10 forward who likes to shoot 3-pointers. As the tallest player on his team Monday, he was a center by default. And maybe for the time being, we should think of him as being at the center of the NBA lockout that has stretched beyond two months.

The owners can't stand the fact they've been operating under a system that calls for Lewis to make $22 million next season, when he'll be three years past his last All-Star Game appearance and coming off a knee-injury-shortened 57-game season.

And after reading this David Berri analysis of the NBA's economics in The Huffington Post, ask yourself whether it makes sense that the system doesn't allow LeBron James or Dirk Nowitzki to make more money than Lewis next season when they clearly brought more value to their teams than he did last season.

Just keep in mind how we got to this point: After the players agreed to a salary cap, a rookie wage scale, a maximum player salary and a luxury tax designed to slow the escalating contracts, can they really be expected to just say no to whatever money the owners kept offering?

Or, as Lewis puts it, "You sign me to a deal, you think I'm going to say, 'No, I deserve $50 [million] instead of $80 [million]?' I'm like, 'Hell, yeah.' I'm not going to turn it down. You can't blame the players. If anything, we don't negotiate the deal. We've got agents that negotiate the deals with the team. Y'all need to go talk to the teams and the agents."

Kinda makes sense, doesn't it? Sometimes you find the most logic the farther you get from the labor negotiations. Out here at the hastily assembled Impact League in Las Vegas, which will lasts through next week, there are healthy doses of common sense and optimism. Of course, the towers in this city were built on optimists. But in this case, the NBA players aren't wagering their money; they're investing their time and energy, hoping for a season that might or might not be played.

Guys fully capable of drawing an NBA salary -- including Corey Maggette, J.J. Hickson, Tony Allen and Jermaine O'Neal -- are out here playing for free ... but if you think about it, the stakes are higher than at any casino on the Strip. If there's no season, Lewis misses out on $22 million he'll never get back.

"But the lockout is not just about me losing a lot of money," Lewis said. "The [2010-11 season] we had in the NBA was a great season. The Memphis Grizzlies got in the playoffs ... and you didn't know who was going to win in the playoffs. From the Memphis Grizzlies to the Lakers, you had no idea who was going to win. Miami didn't win the championship. I'm sure fans are anticipating to see how they're going to do next year. The Boston Celtics, the Lakers, Kevin Durant, [Carmelo Anthony] in New York. 'Superman' [Dwight Howard] -- is he going to be in Orlando or L.A.? So much going on. I'm anticipating it myself -- and I play in the league."

The logical approach would be that no group of businessmen would want to halt that momentum. But you also realize there's no way rich men would keep putting up $300 million buy-ins to a league the NBA insists is losing money if they weren't confident the rules weren't about to change drastically.

That's why my level of optimism that the season will start on time sits below that of the players, who sounded pretty upbeat.

"There's going to be a season," Sebastian Telfair said. "The reason for me saying that is the players want to play and the owners, they enjoy the game just as much as we enjoy playing. At the end of the day, that will overshadow all of the business."

Jared Dudley, the Suns' player representative, took heart from the latest round of talks between the NBA and union leadership.

"The process has finally started," Dudley said. "This is the first time I've basically heard that both sides are saying: 'Let's try. Let's at least attempt it.' That's not saying that it can't turn sour by Tuesday , but the good thing is they've met a couple times, they know that we're having a meeting Thursday. I'm personally expecting, hopefully a proposal [from the owners] Tuesday, and that could hopefully be a start."

Some 70 players are expected to meet in Vegas on Thursday, to get a sense of where they stand. Right now, with a $190 million dispersal from the escrow account headed their way, and before their first pay date comes and goes without any money deposited into their accounts, the players are on firm ground. They have overseas options that weren't viable in the 1998 lockout. There's no reason to capitulate to the owners' demands at the moment.

The owners have had season ticket renewal funds sitting in their accounts all summer and don't have to issue any refunds or credits for missed games yet. So there's no urgency on their part. That's why I don't see a major breakthrough occurring this week.

Lewis has a much better sense for the business side of the game during this lockout than he had in the last one, when he was just out of high school, still staying at his home in Houston, awaiting his entry into NBA life. It would be in his best interest to push for the quickest deal possible and resume collecting paychecks. But he doesn't view this lockout as being about his own best interests.

"Guys before me or before us made the way for us to be successful, and I think we have to do the same thing for the young guys," Lewis said. "We can't say, 'Forget them.'"

On the other end is Isaiah Thomas, the rookie from the University of Washington. He's still waiting for his first NBA game -- and first NBA paycheck. He's here, but it's not like he hasn't played with NBA players before; he regularly hoops with locals such as Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson in his hometown of Seattle. They look after him enough to provide for his travel to Las Vegas for the Impact League. Right now he doesn't quite feel like he's left college yet. He is staying at home and even enrolled in a couple of courses this fall. He can't wait to become a professional.

"It's frustrating," he said. "But at the same time, I've just got to be patient. Usually with basketball players, you know what's next. With this, you don't know when you're going to be playing or if you're going to be playing at all."

He admits to not being versed in the details of the labor negotiations, much like Lewis 13 years ago. But Thomas knows enough to realize he can't expect the lavish paydays of the past.

"They were giving money away," Thomas said. "That's one thing. Being around the NBA players up in Seattle and just looking at guys' contracts, they were giving it away. I guess they're definitely not going to do that anymore."

You know what I can't wait to see? The new Isaiah Thomas in the NBA. In person he looks shorter than his listed 5-foot-9 ("That's what everybody says," he lamented), but every time the ball is in his hands, he makes good things happen, whether he's knocking down jumpers or driving the lane.

The games got more competitive as the day turned to night and the caliber of players improved. It culminated with a jumper at the buzzer by Mo Williams in the fourth game of the night, one that was energized by the antics of Damon Jones (yes, there was a Damon Jones sighting!).

The players are working out in the morning under trainer Joe Abunassar's program and then working on different things in the games at night. There's shape and then there's basketball shape.

Those who came out Monday night even witnessed Rashard Lewis making moves in the low post.

"It's really important to stay in shape," Lewis said. I remember last lockout, there were some guys who came in overweight."

Um, Shawn Kemp, anyone?

If nothing else, I can guarantee you Austin Daye won't get heavy. He could do continuous laps through the In-N-Out Burger drive-through and not gain weight.

There actually are some side benefits to the lockout. Lewis has had extra time to rehabilitate his knee and says it feels 10 times better than when his season ended. He has been able to spend extra time with his wife, whom he married Aug. 13. He took their daughter to her first day of school this month. He's spending time with their 1-year-old.

But there are the reminders that he won't get many more opportunities to be an NBA player. There are flecks of gray in his hair.

However, when you're around basketball players who are actually playing basketball, everyone seems a bit younger. Inside the gym, there is energy, enthusiasm and optimism.

"Once the lockout ends, it's time to go," Lewis said.

He framed it in terms of when, not if. The rest of us can only hope.
Link

 

[statis22]

Or, as Lewis puts it, "You sign me to a deal, you think I'm going to say, 'No, I deserve $50 [million] instead of $80 [million]?' I'm like, 'Hell, yeah.' I'm not going to turn it down. You can't blame the players. If anything, we don't negotiate the deal. We've got agents that negotiate the deals with the team. Y'all need to go talk to the teams and the agents."

POW!!!

 

[statis22]

Or, as Lewis puts it, "You sign me to a deal, you think I'm going to say, 'No, I deserve $50 [million] instead of $80 [million]?' I'm like, 'Hell, yeah.' I'm not going to turn it down. You can't blame the players. If anything, we don't negotiate the deal. We've got agents that negotiate the deals with the team. Y'all need to go talk to the teams and the agents."

POW!!!

 

[pmatic]

@KBergCBS Billy Hunter: "We came with intent to negotiating ... prepared to compromise. ..."

@KBergCBS Hunter: "Unfortunately, were a bit pessimistic."

@KBergCBS Hunter: "The owners are unwilling to move off of the position on which they've anchored themselves."

@KBergCBS Hunter says two sides remain at odds on two key isssues: economics and the system. No future meetings scheduled.

@KBergCBS Hunter: "As of this moment there doesn't appear to be any progress that we can predict."

@KBergCBS Derek Fisher: "It's discouraging and unfortunate, but that's the reality that we're facing."

@KBergCBS Fisher: Players remain committed to process. "We're not walking way from the table."

@KBergCBS Hunter said players were prepared to move on economics, but owners insisted on major changes to system.

@KBergCBS Hunter: Owners did not make a formal proposal and remain in the same place they were June 30 before lockout began.

@KBergCBS Hunter bombshell: "We've advised (players) they may have to sit out half the season before we get a deal."
WELP.

 

[pmatic]

@KBergCBS Billy Hunter: "We came with intent to negotiating ... prepared to compromise. ..."

@KBergCBS Hunter: "Unfortunately, were a bit pessimistic."

@KBergCBS Hunter: "The owners are unwilling to move off of the position on which they've anchored themselves."

@KBergCBS Hunter says two sides remain at odds on two key isssues: economics and the system. No future meetings scheduled.

@KBergCBS Hunter: "As of this moment there doesn't appear to be any progress that we can predict."

@KBergCBS Derek Fisher: "It's discouraging and unfortunate, but that's the reality that we're facing."

@KBergCBS Fisher: Players remain committed to process. "We're not walking way from the table."

@KBergCBS Hunter said players were prepared to move on economics, but owners insisted on major changes to system.

@KBergCBS Hunter: Owners did not make a formal proposal and remain in the same place they were June 30 before lockout began.

@KBergCBS Hunter bombshell: "We've advised (players) they may have to sit out half the season before we get a deal."
WELP.

 

[Bert.]

 

[Bert.]

 

[big j 33]

Disappointed there wasn't even a new offer.

I'm not surprised, though. The owners want a hard cap, with that I'd expect non-guaranteed deals which of course the players won't want.

Missing games is inevitable, but the entire season cannot be lost.. that would hurt the NBA too much.

 

[big j 33]

Disappointed there wasn't even a new offer.

I'm not surprised, though. The owners want a hard cap, with that I'd expect non-guaranteed deals which of course the players won't want.

Missing games is inevitable, but the entire season cannot be lost.. that would hurt the NBA too much.

 

[duba169]

Sterns legacy will be @*+*. And he deserves it

 

[duba169]

Sterns legacy will be @*+*. And he deserves it

 

[Deleted member 38182]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I knew all those warm fuzzy news coming out last week was a farce.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I knew all those warm fuzzy news coming out last week was a farce.

 

[seymore cake]

rck2sactown wrote:

---

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I knew all those warm fuzzy news coming out last week was a farce.

 Malarkey

 

[seymore cake]

rck2sactown wrote:

---

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I knew all those warm fuzzy news coming out last week was a farce.

 Malarkey