Why do African Americans continue to practice Christianity if it was forced upon them during slavery

[patrick bateman]

right... now why would anybody wanna believe in something where that is the core belief?

Like, huh? Nah G. I'm cool.

Slavery, the church and the education system has turned a lot of you dudes soft.. yall can only accept being ruled over, but not ruling over people... yall never seen coming to America? Did Prince Akeem or King Jaffe have to do their own work? Yall dudes these days dont have a Royal mentality, yall like being the servants

"Son, you telling me we get to have servants??? Nah dawg, I cant do that"

Suit yourself.

 

[mrdozo]

what does going to a bible college have to do with


um actually santa claus did exist and their is proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus he was a real man in most part did the very thing he is known for now the whole flying reindeers etc.. is fabricated and unproven... but so is jesus walking on water.. turning water to wine etc...

so infact it is exactly the same... both are ppl who did exist... who are known for some amazing feats feats that defy logic and has no proof of ever occurring outside of old folktales and stories of the past so....................

One cannot teach out of a vaccum. If youre going to teach the Bible, you should go to a Bible college. Same as when you want to teach any other subject, you study that subject in college.

A Santa Claus may have existed, but did he die on a cross and resurrect 3 days later? Jesus body was never found. Comparing the 2? You cannot.

 

[patrick bateman]

Get back in that Royal spirit

Yall always wanna talk about how yall were Kings and Queens... Well start acting like it

 

[gatorbeltsnpattiemelts]

my ancestral Kings and Queens weren't Christians tho....


please go sit down somewhere. Like, right this instant.

 

[patrick bateman]

my ancestral Kings and Queens weren't Christians tho....


please go sit down somewhere. Like, right this instant.

Dont see what this has to do with ruling over people and being comfortable about it.. but okay, sir.

 

[darthska]

 

Ignoring the substance of what I posted, I see.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, too. You see, I was going to include a P.P.S. in that reply, and it was going to say "You're going to be tempted to avoid the meat of what I said, and choose to respond with questions/comments about my background. Don't. Just stick with the actual verse I posted and let's discuss that, since (literally) I have nothing to do with the verse, but it is, indeed, in the Bible.

ok. I'll man up. I will bring up both the passage in Exodus as well as slavery in general, with my Pastor. See if he can explain the context to me. This isnt something we've looked at in detail, to be honest.

Just because theres slavery in the Bible, it does not mean Jesus endorsed it. Theres murder, incest and other horrible things in the Bible, Jesus didnt approve of them.

But I'll discuss this over and post in here tomorrow.

Don't bother.

I want to discuss YOUR opinion and see what YOU think about the verses in the Bible laying out rules for owning other human being and selling daughters for sex.

If I want to know what your pastor has to say, I'd ask you for his e-mail and discuss it myself with him.

Stop relying on other people to form your opinion. No, I don't mean that disrespectfully. But yes, when someone asks you something and you respond w/ "I'm'a go ask my pastor", you're going to someone else to have them tell you what you're supposed to think as a Christian.

Because I can tell you right now what you're pastor is going to tell you. Promise.

 

[shoelyesses]

ok. I'll man up. I will bring up both the passage in Exodus as well as slavery in general, with my Pastor. See if he can explain the context to me. This isnt something we've looked at in detail, to be honest.

Just because theres slavery in the Bible, it does not mean Jesus endorsed it. Theres murder, incest and other horrible things in the Bible, Jesus didnt approve of them.

But I'll discuss this over and post in here tomorrow.

that is true but there is no verse that specifically says a man shall rape murder etc... a man and in doing so is acting representing god... I have yet to come across it yet.

even then what does a pastor have to do with anything... makes no sense... the words are specific and direct. Your basically saying im going to ask my pastor etc... to change words meaning and definition to mean something applicable to fit my agenda or to satisfy or pacify whatever I want it to mean...

That's like me saying if there is a law that states same sex cant marry..then I look to someone in congress etc.. to say/tell me something totally different exact opposite aka gays can marry...

No matter what your pastor tells you or spin it, it clearly says slavery is ok and you can work a man for free so long as he is given time to rest on sunday and he uses said time to worship god... that is clear and plain as it can be... your speaking like this is some type of code or some jayz double entendre or some undecoded hidden meaning language to which only a pastor you pastor can decode...

when it says a slave shall honor and obey said master... obey and honor means exactly that... it means the same in any context and in any message passage of any written or spoken verbage...

you are suggesting that universal words and definitions mean something entirely different depending on a certain religion, a certain denomination and depending on a certain race of person and position in a particular church...

I mean I respect whatever religion faith etc... you choose but to outright say something like oh words/meanings definitions somehow are determined based on religion/race/denomination is dishonest and disingenuous.

 

[shoelyesses]

One cannot teach out of a vaccum. If youre going to teach the Bible, you should go to a Bible college. Same as when you want to teach any other subject, you study that subject in college.

A Santa Claus may have existed, but did he die on a cross and resurrect 3 days later? Jesus body was never found. Comparing the 2? You cannot.

but all you said about jesus is unproven... so by saying its different and providing no proof makes no sense...

I could say the same thing no one has proven santa claus did not lead a sleigh of reindeers... can you... ok then

 

[sea manup]

 

what does going to a bible college have to do with


um actually santa claus did exist and their is proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus he was a real man in most part did the very thing he is known for now the whole flying reindeers etc.. is fabricated and unproven... but so is jesus walking on water.. turning water to wine etc...

so infact it is exactly the same... both are ppl who did exist... who are known for some amazing feats feats that defy logic and has no proof of ever occurring outside of old folktales and stories of the past so....................

One cannot teach out of a vaccum. If youre going to teach the Bible, you should go to a Bible college. Same as when you want to teach any other subject, you study that subject in college.

A Santa Claus may have existed, but did he die on a cross and resurrect 3 days later? Jesus body was never found. Comparing the 2? You cannot.

people's bodies go missing every day b

 

[blackboyfly]

On Exodus 21:20-21....

In early Bible times a decision would be rendered on rather or not a slave master would be punished in the event the slave died via the master. As said earlier, if the slave lived for a day or two without dying, indicating that the master had not intended to kill the slave but discipline him, the master could go unpunished.

It also appears that the master could only be considered guilt free if the punishment was not dealt with a deadly instrument (Numbers 35:16-1

So if a slave lingered on for a day or two there would be reasonable doubt among the judges whether the death resulted from chastisement. A beating with a rod(what was mostly used in these instances) while painful, (as many of us well knew growing up) wasn't likely to be deadly (Proverbs 23:13)

Along with the fact that slaves were valuable property, and killing a slave would result in a loss for the master, all of the above is what my bible understanding has allowed me to discern from Exodus 21:20-21.

Just to shed some more light on slave beatings... Exodus 21:26,27 also states that if a slave were to lose a tooth or eye because of a beating from his master, the slave was to be let go. And the maximum time a slave would have to serve his master was 6 years(Exodus 21:2)


I hope that made sense

 

[darthska]

^ So it stands to reason the God laid out guidelines for slavery, right? God was ok w/ a person being owned by another person, right? He just wanted guidelines for these occurrences, right?

 

[am1x90xnike]

The Bible was actually ok with slavery, it was a common practice back then, he probably wouldn't have been ok with Chattel Slavery, for example, even slaves in Roman culture has rights, American slavery was a result of our legal system and political ideals.


I'm confused though, brothas in here really want to go back to a segregated America? A house divided against itself cannot stand, I really really don't think people understand what segregation was like.

 

[shoelyesses]

On Exodus 21:20-21....

In early Bible times a decision would be rendered on rather or not a slave master would be punished in the event the slave died via the master. As said earlier, if the slave lived for a day or two without dying, indicating that the master had not intended to kill the slave but discipline him, the master could go unpunished.

It also appears that the master could only be considered guilt free if the punishment was not dealt with a deadly instrument (Numbers 35:16-1

So if a slave lingered on for a day or two there would be reasonable doubt among the judges whether the death resulted from chastisement. A beating with a rod(what was mostly used in these instances) while painful, (as many of us well knew growing up) wasn't likely to be deadly (Proverbs 23:13)

Along with the fact that slaves were valuable property, and killing a slave would result in a loss for the master, all of the above is what my bible understanding has allowed me to discern from Exodus 21:20-21.

Just to shed some more light on slave beatings... Exodus 21:26,27 also states that if a slave were to lose a tooth or eye because of a beating from his master, the slave was to be let go. And the maximum time a slave would have to serve his master was 6 years(Exodus 21:2)


I hope that made sense

non of which says slavery is deemed unfit, wrong in a practical or moral sense.... so slavery is ok under certain guidelines rules and parameters...

 

[shoelyesses]

The Bible was actually ok with slavery, it was a common practice back then, he probably wouldn't have been ok with Chattel Slavery, for example, even slaves in Roman culture has rights, American slavery was a result of our legal system and political ideals.


I'm confused though, brothas in here really want to go back to a segregated America? A house divided against itself cannot stand, I really really don't think people understand what segregation was like.

I don't think ppl promote segregation in a sense... but wish black ppl would have the mindset, the fervor, the civil rights mindset, the money management, independent mindset blacks had before integration... it was the only time in Americas history blacks at large succeeded and obtained some sort stability socially, fiscally, emotionally, family structure so on and so forth.

 

[mrdozo]

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Lol Christianity and Islam were taken from native African beliefs and structred into the tools of domination they are today. Europeans and Arabs took our traditions and stories and created their organized religions from them. Heck you have some of the oldest Orthodox Christians and Jews in the world originating in Ethopia.

Oh, God. Not this again.

 

[blackboyfly]

 
^ So it stands to reason the God laid out guidelines for slavery, right? God was ok w/ a person being owned by another person, right? He just wanted guidelines for these occurrences, right?

Well yes, and no. Regarding the social structure of the ancient nation of Israel, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia states: “It was meant to function as a brotherhood in which, ideally, there were no poor [and there was] no exploitation of widows, waifs, or orphans.” So more than simply allowing an already established social and economic structure, God’s Law regulated slavery so that, if practiced, slaves would be treated in a humane and loving manner

As others have pointed out, slavery in bible times was nothing like the slavery that we think of when we hear that word. Kidd napping someone and then selling them into slavery was punishable by death (Exodus 21:16) . Leviticus 25:39, 40 says: “In case your brother grows poor alongside you and he has to sell himself to you, you must not use him as a worker in slavish service. He should prove to be with you like a hired laborer, like a settler.” A person caught steeling and unable to pay back what they stole could opt to make themselves and a slave(Exodus 22:3), and when they've payed what they owed they were to be set free. Deut 15:13:14 shows that released slaves were to be well treated by their old masters,and adorned with expensive gifts upon their leaving.

Point being, yes,slavery was permitted by god at one time. But the slavery that we've seen practiced the past couple hundred of years was forbidden right from the very start. It would be a gross distortion of Scripture to link Israelite slavery to the inhumanity that has taken place throughout history

 

[am1x90xnike]

That I can dig.

1. Negroes get their ish together
2. America gets its ish together

El Hajj Malik Shabazz at his core believed in justice and equality for all if Allahs children.

My personal beliefs are a combination of Buddhism, Christianity and Islam...

 

[darthska]

[quote name="Blackboyfly"][QUOTE name="DarthSka"]
 
^ So it stands to reason the God laid out guidelines for slavery, right? God was ok w/ a person being owned by another person, right? He just wanted guidelines for these occurrences, right?
[/QUOTE]yes,slavery was permitted by god at one time. But the slavery that we've seen practiced the past couple hundred of years was forbidden right from the very start. It would be a gross distortion of Scripture to link Israelite slavery to the inhumanity that has taken place throughout history[/quote]Permitted by god at one time? So... he changed his mind?

 

[luckyluchiano]

That I can dig.

1. Negroes get their ish together
2. America gets its ish together

El Hajj Malik Shabazz at his core believed in justice and equality for all if Allahs children.

My personal beliefs are a combination of Buddhism, Christianity and Islam...

Malcolm always preached separate but equal ALWAYS. Even when he died the only thing that changed in his views that not all white people we bad but he NEVER was for integration. Lol peoples "integrated" education seem to skip over that, especially when someone I'm here said they love Malcolm but hate Garvey yet Garvey was one of Malcolm and the NOIs top influences.

Lol back in the day scary blacks weren't rocking with Malcolm because they said he was to radical it isn't till now are more blacks saying "I rock with Malcolm" when back then many blacks did not support him. We see where that got us. The idealology of separate but equal is purly economic. How can the black man compete and integrate when he has zero foundation? Zero sense of unity, zero sense of who he actually is?

 

[sea manup]

 

Originally Posted by Blackboyfly  

Originally Posted by DarthSka  
 
^ So it stands to reason the God laid out guidelines for slavery, right? God was ok w/ a person being owned by another person, right? He just wanted guidelines for these occurrences, right?

yes,slavery was permitted by god at one time. But the slavery that we've seen practiced the past couple hundred of years was forbidden right from the very start. It would be a gross distortion of Scripture to link Israelite slavery to the inhumanity that has taken place throughout history

Permitted by god at one time? So... he changed his mind?

he changed his mind around the same time people decided that slavery is wrong 

 

[shoelyesses]

 
Well yes, and no. Regarding the social structure of the ancient nation of Israel, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia states: “It was meant to function as a brotherhood in which, ideally, there were no poor [and there was] no exploitation of widows, waifs, or orphans.” So more than simply allowing an already established social and economic structure, God’s Law regulated slavery so that, if practiced, slaves would be treated in a humane and loving manner

As others have pointed out, slavery in bible times was nothing like the slavery that we think of when we hear that word. Kidd napping someone and then selling them into slavery was punishable by death (Exodus 21:16) . Leviticus 25:39, 40 says: “In case your brother grows poor alongside you and he has to sell himself to you, you must not use him as a worker in slavish service. He should prove to be with you like a hired laborer, like a settler.” A person caught steeling and unable to pay back what they stole could opt to make themselves and a slave(Exodus 22:3), and when they've payed what they owed they were to be set free. Deut 15:13:14 shows that released slaves were to be well treated by their old masters,and adorned with expensive gifts upon their leaving.

Point being, yes,slavery was permitted by god at one time. But the slavery that we've seen practiced the past couple hundred of years was forbidden right from the very start. It would be a gross distortion of Scripture to link Israelite slavery to the inhumanity that has taken place throughout history

but you don't know that and the word and passages does not specify it neither... you are basically taking concrete sound words and interpreting it as see fit to go against the very religion because it doesn't coincide with what in your heart of hearts believe.

you wasn't there and unlike modern most recent slavery there is proof credence of evidence of the life and conditions of said slavery. slavery in terms of so called biblical times is unknown outside of what the passages say... and what it is said is that slavery occurred, masters could and shall beat slaves so long as it isn't to death.. slaves were not to speak ill/bad about their master, the master was a extension and representation of god... slaves were to be allowed to honor the Sabbath only for religious practice and worship only...

and as far as the kidnapping part slaves were not kidnapped...common misconception other more affluent and powerful Africans sold them to whites...which is permissible in the new testament although deemed as a sin and punishable with death in the old testament... which I guess you could say god had a change of heart who knows... if this is indeed true and even if it were true who are you or a pastor to say oh well god meant or implied this when he pulled the switcheroo....

and all the description you laid out were true for some slaves not all... which included some poor whites aka indentured servants... so even in biblical terms it describe the same events that occurred in modern slavery minus the whole beating slaves to death to which neither you nor I know whether that occurred in biblical times... and whether or not they were indeed punished for doing so...

 

[shoelyesses]

Malcolm always preached separate but equal ALWAYS. Even when he died the only thing that changed in his views that not all white people we bad but he NEVER was for integration. Lol peoples "integrated" education seem to skip over that, especially when someone I'm here said they love Malcolm but hate Garvey yet Garvey was one of Malcolm and the NOIs top influences.

Lol back in the day scary blacks weren't rocking with Malcolm because they said he was to radical it isn't till now are more blacks saying "I rock with Malcolm" when back then many blacks did not support him. We see where that got us. The idealology of separate but equal is purly economic. How can the black man compete and integrate when he has zero foundation? Zero sense of unity, zero sense of who he actually is?

the funny thing is mlk started to understand this and begin to have a change of heart.. tho not as radical as Malcolm, Garvey, etc... he did begin to see the era in his cumbaya we are the world cant we all just get along mentality... to bad he was assassinated before that ideology came into fruition...

Malcolm wasn't for integration not for the black ppl should be "isolated and be on some whole separatism from all other nationalities/races of ppl.. but moreso he saw what would become of it if we did...aka assimilation aka todays modern pet negroes... he felt and had an idea based on the very same principles others such as jews, Asians etc... have formed and adopted.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="LIONBLOOD""]This thread reeks of jealousy, bitterness and failed life ambitions.[/quote]If you lack the ability to discuss the topic, just say so instead of commenting on what you think about the people discussing the topic.

 

[shoelyesses]

This thread reeks of jealousy, bitterness and failed life ambitions.

and that's where religion comes in...its has become the coping tool/mechanism for said things... it is the self loathing and acceptance tool used to take things as the are, be thankful things aren't as bad as they once were, and be appreciative things aren't as bad as others.. mixed with wrongs/mistakes/failures etc... can be remissive and overlook/surpass with tithes and prayer and having a relationship with said preacher etc...