The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[rudemiester]

Originally Posted by DubA169

hes destroyed the NBA with his expansion. The main reason the talent is so diuluted is David Stern. He also continues to keep teams in markets that cant sustain them.

THIS IS ABOUT OWNER VS OWNER

we are going to have the same problems in 7 years if the owners dont deal with each other

I understand that but my point was that the people who employ him aren't going to seek his removal because all that he's done to ruin the NBA in the eyes of the fans has benefited his employers. 
Talent dilution, unsustainable markets.. Big market teams are still making money hand over fist, selling out every night and winning championships. Smaller market teams aren't winning but thanks to the new labor deal all of the financial losses of teams that shouldn't even exist will be covered.  Even if a select few owners are holding things up by nitpicking, they're a minority. They can't oust the same dude who helped them into existence. I think the most you can see happen is a few teams dissolving if these experiments continually dont work. Like how the NBA owns the Hornets and a prospective owner wanted to move a team back to Vancouver..Let them make their rounds to these markets where nobody wants to play. Hopefully they make it back to Seattle eventually. Theres only so much superstars that each team can afford. The Miami's, NYC's and LA's of the league can only acquire so much and even then there's no guarantee that it works. (See: '04 Pistons, '11 Mavs, Spurs, Rockets etc etc) This lockout was necessary from a business standpoint. It'll all work out in the end. 

 

[rudemiester]

Originally Posted by DubA169

hes destroyed the NBA with his expansion. The main reason the talent is so diuluted is David Stern. He also continues to keep teams in markets that cant sustain them.

THIS IS ABOUT OWNER VS OWNER

we are going to have the same problems in 7 years if the owners dont deal with each other

I understand that but my point was that the people who employ him aren't going to seek his removal because all that he's done to ruin the NBA in the eyes of the fans has benefited his employers. 
Talent dilution, unsustainable markets.. Big market teams are still making money hand over fist, selling out every night and winning championships. Smaller market teams aren't winning but thanks to the new labor deal all of the financial losses of teams that shouldn't even exist will be covered.  Even if a select few owners are holding things up by nitpicking, they're a minority. They can't oust the same dude who helped them into existence. I think the most you can see happen is a few teams dissolving if these experiments continually dont work. Like how the NBA owns the Hornets and a prospective owner wanted to move a team back to Vancouver..Let them make their rounds to these markets where nobody wants to play. Hopefully they make it back to Seattle eventually. Theres only so much superstars that each team can afford. The Miami's, NYC's and LA's of the league can only acquire so much and even then there's no guarantee that it works. (See: '04 Pistons, '11 Mavs, Spurs, Rockets etc etc) This lockout was necessary from a business standpoint. It'll all work out in the end. 

 

[statis22]

The union couldnt even get enough votes together to get a counter proposal started, but it's owners vs. owner.

The players aren't unified so the big money players are listening to their agents instead of their union leaders and everybody else is being kept outta the loop.

Hell Stern was the voice of reason against the hard line owners to get the proposal we all saw Sunday night (the same proposal some union leaders didn't see until yesterday

).

Too many feeling got involved and this is where we are at now but sure, keep thinking this lockout is all about a small vs big market issue. These owners ain't dumb, they BEEN waiting on players to go this route. Deron Williams was right, the union should have taken this route in July.

Owners are stupid for their ridiculous hard line, players are stupid for their lack of urgency. End result, everybody who posts in this thread lose.

 

[statis22]

The union couldnt even get enough votes together to get a counter proposal started, but it's owners vs. owner.

The players aren't unified so the big money players are listening to their agents instead of their union leaders and everybody else is being kept outta the loop.

Hell Stern was the voice of reason against the hard line owners to get the proposal we all saw Sunday night (the same proposal some union leaders didn't see until yesterday

).

Too many feeling got involved and this is where we are at now but sure, keep thinking this lockout is all about a small vs big market issue. These owners ain't dumb, they BEEN waiting on players to go this route. Deron Williams was right, the union should have taken this route in July.

Owners are stupid for their ridiculous hard line, players are stupid for their lack of urgency. End result, everybody who posts in this thread lose.

 

[duba169]

Honestly gpr the first time I just don't wanna evenntalk about this %%%$ anymore.

I'm done for a bit

 

[duba169]

Honestly gpr the first time I just don't wanna evenntalk about this %%%$ anymore.

I'm done for a bit

 

[japanair21]

I always thought it was the small market/hard-line owners that wanted these changes, these system changes, and Stern was voicing their opinions

. Does he have influence? Absolutely, but I thought I read that it was Stern that allowed them to revise their most recent offer which WAS better than the previous one.

 

[japanair21]

I always thought it was the small market/hard-line owners that wanted these changes, these system changes, and Stern was voicing their opinions

. Does he have influence? Absolutely, but I thought I read that it was Stern that allowed them to revise their most recent offer which WAS better than the previous one.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Stern looked way too pleased in his interview, he was relishing in putting down Hunter and the union. I understand coming across as confident, but his smugness was plain as day.. didn't seem like a commish who was responsible for a disaster in his league.

*Waits for Statis to come in and say what a great job Stern is doing* 

  

Yup....  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Stern looked way too pleased in his interview, he was relishing in putting down Hunter and the union. I understand coming across as confident, but his smugness was plain as day.. didn't seem like a commish who was responsible for a disaster in his league.

*Waits for Statis to come in and say what a great job Stern is doing* 

  

Yup....  

 

[duba169]

David Boies, who joined the players in a legal claim against the owners, said they will filed an antitrust complaint in Northern District of California.

The district has a history of moving cases quickly.

Boies says the case is based on a boycott of NBA teams, which is a per se violation of antitrust laws. The only question is to whether the NBA has a labor exemption.

Amongst the plaintiffs in the lawsuit are Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

The ultimatum offer from David Stern is quoted in the complaint.

"That's not collective bargaining," said Boies.

Via Ken Berger/CBS Sports (via Twitter)

 

[duba169]

David Boies, who joined the players in a legal claim against the owners, said they will filed an antitrust complaint in Northern District of California.

The district has a history of moving cases quickly.

Boies says the case is based on a boycott of NBA teams, which is a per se violation of antitrust laws. The only question is to whether the NBA has a labor exemption.

Amongst the plaintiffs in the lawsuit are Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

The ultimatum offer from David Stern is quoted in the complaint.

"That's not collective bargaining," said Boies.

Via Ken Berger/CBS Sports (via Twitter)

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm sorry, Stern has to go.  Good run, did a decent enough job, but there's too much shadyiness goin on with him, he needs to step down before it gets worse.  Finish the deal, take a year to act like all is well, then when it's quiet bow out.  That's all I'm askin for.  If he is still here in 6 years when one side opts out of the CBA, we're doomed. 

You put it perfect. He's been by far the best commissioner in sports during his run but now he has another lockout under his watch. Coming off probably the best season since the Jordan era. He fights tooth and nail to take out every bit of physicalness, trash talk and put in dress codes but dude just sat back like "O well  its the players fault". He's had a long great run but its time for something new. 

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm sorry, Stern has to go.  Good run, did a decent enough job, but there's too much shadyiness goin on with him, he needs to step down before it gets worse.  Finish the deal, take a year to act like all is well, then when it's quiet bow out.  That's all I'm askin for.  If he is still here in 6 years when one side opts out of the CBA, we're doomed. 

You put it perfect. He's been by far the best commissioner in sports during his run but now he has another lockout under his watch. Coming off probably the best season since the Jordan era. He fights tooth and nail to take out every bit of physicalness, trash talk and put in dress codes but dude just sat back like "O well  its the players fault". He's had a long great run but its time for something new. 

 

[lovesit]

Look on the bright side, at least Lebron goes another year without a ring.

 

[lovesit]

Look on the bright side, at least Lebron goes another year without a ring.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Statis22

The union couldnt even get enough votes together to get a counter proposal started, but it's owners vs. owner.

The players aren't unified so the big money players are listening to their agents instead of their union leaders and everybody else is being kept outta the loop.

Hell Stern was the voice of reason against the hard line owners to get the proposal we all saw Sunday night (the same proposal some union leaders didn't see until yesterday

).

Too many feeling got involved and this is where we are at now but sure, keep thinking this lockout is all about a small vs big market issue. These owners ain't dumb, they BEEN waiting on players to go this route. Deron Williams was right, the union should have taken this route in July.

Owners are stupid for their ridiculous hard line, players are stupid for their lack of urgency. End result, everybody who posts in this thread lose.

The union isn't a bunch of lawyers and accountants.  They play ball, call them dumb if you want, tho I would not.  But it's not their job, they let the accounts, union chief, and agents advise on the languages of how everything is going.  Some players understand it all, some do not, most of the players that do not, stay out of it, and for good reason I imagine.  (think KG)  They play when told too.  

So a "counter" proposal is absurd.  They negotiate terms as best as possible, but the league and all their paper pushers draw everything up.  The final one was given not as a proposal, but as an ultimatum by Stern.  Take this, or leave it.  Our offers will get WORSE from here on out.  Explain to me how that is a negotiation?  Explain to me how that is wise.  This from the "leader" of both sides. 

We all knew, we ALL knew the players were losing this deal.  They knew it too, and they got that, they gave back the money the owners cried they lost, done and done.  They came down to 50/50, ok fine, and THEN the owners start adding stuff.  The final days they were bringing up things that hadn't even been brought up yet, yet you claim that's cool, the players are stupid, they didn't counter or share enough info.  How the @#$% can you when it keeps adding up in the final days? 

 

The players aren't unified?  They just did something unprecedented.  Of course someone out of 430 guys is going to want to give up, duh.  But the majority held their ground, and the majority is NOT the rich guys.  You damn well know that. 

Of course everybody is stupid, and of course we all lose out, but you go ahead and actually answer all the things I asked you and tell me how great Stern is doing, and the owners vs owners isn't a huge issue right now.  If they weren't an issue we'd have a deal.  Money back, same system, play ball.  Naw, they don't want that, they want to redo the entire system.  But keep blaming the players for not counter proposing a complete restructure of the league.  Like they would know how to do that. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Statis22

The union couldnt even get enough votes together to get a counter proposal started, but it's owners vs. owner.

The players aren't unified so the big money players are listening to their agents instead of their union leaders and everybody else is being kept outta the loop.

Hell Stern was the voice of reason against the hard line owners to get the proposal we all saw Sunday night (the same proposal some union leaders didn't see until yesterday

).

Too many feeling got involved and this is where we are at now but sure, keep thinking this lockout is all about a small vs big market issue. These owners ain't dumb, they BEEN waiting on players to go this route. Deron Williams was right, the union should have taken this route in July.

Owners are stupid for their ridiculous hard line, players are stupid for their lack of urgency. End result, everybody who posts in this thread lose.

The union isn't a bunch of lawyers and accountants.  They play ball, call them dumb if you want, tho I would not.  But it's not their job, they let the accounts, union chief, and agents advise on the languages of how everything is going.  Some players understand it all, some do not, most of the players that do not, stay out of it, and for good reason I imagine.  (think KG)  They play when told too.  

So a "counter" proposal is absurd.  They negotiate terms as best as possible, but the league and all their paper pushers draw everything up.  The final one was given not as a proposal, but as an ultimatum by Stern.  Take this, or leave it.  Our offers will get WORSE from here on out.  Explain to me how that is a negotiation?  Explain to me how that is wise.  This from the "leader" of both sides. 

We all knew, we ALL knew the players were losing this deal.  They knew it too, and they got that, they gave back the money the owners cried they lost, done and done.  They came down to 50/50, ok fine, and THEN the owners start adding stuff.  The final days they were bringing up things that hadn't even been brought up yet, yet you claim that's cool, the players are stupid, they didn't counter or share enough info.  How the @#$% can you when it keeps adding up in the final days? 

 

The players aren't unified?  They just did something unprecedented.  Of course someone out of 430 guys is going to want to give up, duh.  But the majority held their ground, and the majority is NOT the rich guys.  You damn well know that. 

Of course everybody is stupid, and of course we all lose out, but you go ahead and actually answer all the things I asked you and tell me how great Stern is doing, and the owners vs owners isn't a huge issue right now.  If they weren't an issue we'd have a deal.  Money back, same system, play ball.  Naw, they don't want that, they want to redo the entire system.  But keep blaming the players for not counter proposing a complete restructure of the league.  Like they would know how to do that. 

  

 

[pmatic]

A lawsuit has been filed in Minnesota on behalf of Caron Butler, Ben Gordon, Anthony Tolliver and Derrick Williams against the NBA.

Another one has been filed in California on behalf of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

 

[pmatic]

A lawsuit has been filed in Minnesota on behalf of Caron Butler, Ben Gordon, Anthony Tolliver and Derrick Williams against the NBA.

Another one has been filed in California on behalf of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

 

[pr0phecy718]

Originally Posted by LovesIt

Look on the bright side, at least Lebron goes another year without a ring.

lol.......

 

[pr0phecy718]

Originally Posted by LovesIt

Look on the bright side, at least Lebron goes another year without a ring.

lol.......

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by PMatic

A lawsuit has been filed in Minnesota on behalf of Caron Butler, Ben Gordon, Anthony Tolliver and Derrick Williams against the NBA.

Another one has been filed in California on behalf of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

And the league already has a suit pending in N.Y.  So the first fight is likely going to be about what court should even be hearing the case.  The lawyers are definitely going to get paid on this thing. 
  

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by PMatic

A lawsuit has been filed in Minnesota on behalf of Caron Butler, Ben Gordon, Anthony Tolliver and Derrick Williams against the NBA.

Another one has been filed in California on behalf of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

And the league already has a suit pending in N.Y.  So the first fight is likely going to be about what court should even be hearing the case.  The lawyers are definitely going to get paid on this thing. 
  

 

[PatRiley]

so how does this work? why would they file multiple lawsuits?